QuakerQuaker migration starting soon, can you help?
Hi QuakerQuaker fans,It's time to start the migration of QuakerQuaker to a new online platform. It…See More
QuakerQuaker
Primitive Christianity Revived, Again
Matthew 7.6
Do not give dogs what is holy;
and do not throw your pearls before swine
lest they trample them underfoot
and turn to attack you.
=====================
Dogs and swine are unclean animals; Romans and pagans are uncircumcized, inherently unclean human beings. This saying does not seem at all to stem from a sense of universal brotherhood.
It could be read with a different perspective, of course. Readers of Lord Dunsany will remember that the Witch who lives at the edge of the world keeps a herd of pigs; and employs poets to keep them fed. What do the poets feed them? -- Pearls, of course. Do the pigs like their pearls? -- Someone asks. "Not particularly." So this could be an example of treating people as they would like.
Is that Jesus' meaning here? It seems unlikely; to this extent he talks like a typical Israelite of his day; and outreach to the goyim does not seem to become a priority of his movement until after his death.
His constituency is the oppressed poor of Israel; and their oppressors are Romans and their local clients. When he is eventually executed, it is done by the Roman authorities on the recommendation of the High Priest and his party, people who support and benefit from Roman rule, at the expense of the peasantry who make up the vast majority of his nation.
Although Jesus is portrayed elsewhere in the gospels as enjoying friendly relations with sympathetic foreigners, that may not be at all what he expected at the beginning of his career.
http://kwakerskripturestudy.blogspot.com/2015/07/matthew-76.html
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by James C Schultz on
-
I am reminded of this scripture when discussing things of a spiritual nature with the unspiritual. Discerning who is spiritual or unspiritual is another question. I generally get a nudge from the spirit that I am wasting my time in that the person I am speaking to is either not interested or not yet ready to hear what I am about to say.
-
Permalink Reply by Forrest Curo on
-
That's how I read it, too -- but I'm also somewhat concerned with how it sounded and was meant in 1st Century Judea.
As far as I can guess at that, it looks like Jesus continued to 'grow in wisdom and in stature' even after he was already grown man with a public mission to discharge -- and a powerful connection to God. Which was not just a one-time event, but as with us, an ongoing process.
-
-
Most of my bible loving brothers and sisters have a problem with my belief that Jesus lived as a man by faith and as he walked on earth knew certain things by "leadings" as we do and at other times by revelations as the situation called for them. I believe it is reasonable to think that Jesus often wondered if he was crazy for believing he, the man, was the chosen one, the Messiah. Don't forget the one story about him in his youth found him in spiritual discussions with the wise men of the temple. Speaking personally God has done many things for me but on occasion I have to question whether everything is self-fulfilling prophecy and I'm not well. That's where faith comes in. That and the knowledge that I have come to far and left behind to much to turn back now.
-
-
Well, in the past I tried to imagine that God's interventions in my life might be normal occurrences and flukes of probability; but eventually the accumulated odds of that were way down in the Snowball Unit order of magnitude. And besides, whenever I looked at what had happened honestly, all I could say was, "Naw! Why should I pretend I don't know what I know?"
& then there's the ongoing fact of life-and-consciousness, a spiritual fact that's necessary for anyone to perceive the existence of anything whatsoever -- and no matter how mistaken I might be, the palpable presence of a 'me' to be mistaken implies the reality of Spirit.
But as you say, there's no point trying to convince anyone who's shut that kind of evidence out of consideration. God's influence is patient, and seldom wants my interference!
-
-
'A prophet' (as Jesus' contemporaries thought of him) is 'a distinctly human figure' who 'knows some things by revelation' -- but isn't 'a deity' per se.
If you think of 'prophecy' as 'the act of knowing something through a powerful connection to God', rather than as having a job title like 'Prophet', then you could well make a distinction between the development and maturation of the man 'Jesus' as a human figure -- and the vision Jesus was in the process of grasping through that divine connection.
(?)
-
-
Just to clarify where I come from, I do believe in the deity of Jesus of Nazareth. I just believe that as scripture says He put aside that deity to show us how we can live by faith. In doing so He shows us just how important we are to Him.
Lucas H said:
Hi there James,I have always seen Jesus as a distinctly human figure... it confounds me a little that so many believers hold onto a very otherworldy conception of him... im not sure if you're pointing to the same thing here, but to me a 'deity jesus' has always seemed much less compelling than the idea of a normal man, albeit one with a powerful and transformative connectedness to god... just my two cents ;)
James C Schultz said:Most of my bible loving brothers and sisters have a problem with my belief that Jesus lived as a man by faith and as he walked on earth knew certain things by "leadings" as we do and at other times by revelations as the situation called for them. I believe it is reasonable to think that Jesus often wondered if he was crazy for believing he, the man, was the chosen one, the Messiah. Don't forget the one story about him in his youth found him in spiritual discussions with the wise men of the temple. Speaking personally God has done many things for me but on occasion I have to question whether everything is self-fulfilling prophecy and I'm not well. That's where faith comes in. That and the knowledge that I have come to far and left behind to much to turn back now.
-
-
In Hinduism there are also avatars & gurus -- People so unusually attuned to God that they come to recognize their identity as manifestations of God-at-work (and/or God-at-play?) -- or can serve as stand-ins for God (to assist others in working out their 'Transference' issues with God? That's how it looks in a story Ram Dass tells about his guru in _Paths to God_)
Anyway, we seem to have always had mystics trying to shed their pesky human personalities and take their identities from God's animating presence within... and they don't really become impersonal; but sometimes the line between their individual selves and God manifesting as that person could get elusive...
Support Us
Did you know that QuakerQuaker is 100% reader supported? Our costs run to about $50/month. If you think this kind of outreach and conversation is important, please support it with a monthly subscription or one-time gift.
Latest Activity
"Hi Christopher, thanks for your ongoing support all this time; I understand needing to slow down…"
In person gathering - Friends of the Light
7th mo. 22, 2023 all dayFriends of the Light - Online worship
6th mo. 4, 2023 from 7pm to 8pm
"Hi Martin,
I hope other users have been making occasional/regular donations. I am…"
© 2023 Created by QuakerQuaker.
Powered by
