Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 5, 2010 at 12:57pm

thank you again, Faye. in no way do i find our discussion offensive! on the contrary, it is a big relief to have found this site and the helpful people on it! i'm also relieved to know that one is not required either to use plain language or not use it but may tailor to fit the circumstances. i use it on occasion with a select couple of close friends, probably because i have belonged to a secular support group for the past 19 years, and a few of the brief prayers we use have plain language from the bible, even though it is not a Christian group per se. but i guess i already said that when i used the word "secular," didn't I? (smile)

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 5, 2010 at 1:04pm

another question, if you don't mind...my understanding is that the Quaker way does not include the consumption of alcohol. does that still hold true?

i am hoping i am not being a nuisance, Faye, and any others who might be reading!

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 5, 2010 at 9:40pm

Faye! you have done it again! your insight and wisdom is amazing to me! thank you for sharing such personal information. i did not expect it, but such a treasure. i agree 100% that we each need to "seek out our own salvation." where is that quote from, Faye?

i no longer use alcohol and have not for the past 19 years. it had become a huge burden. my mom is alcoholic, along with many others in my family. alcoholism doesn't run in my family--it gallops!

and yes, the Bible is considered the word of God here in Texas. i did not think that was a universal Quaker belief but am nevertheless most glad to read it from you. (smile) i think my view of God is quite simplistic, perhaps overly so. but it is my own view and i certainly do not expect others to share it. i was brought up by an agnostic father and an atheist mother, both super intelligent, well educated, well read, etc. but at least i was allowed to learn about religions, go to church if i chose, or not, that sort of thing. the first few years of my childhood in Michigan i remember i went to church with one of my aunts--Church of Christ. so i read the Bible cover to cover and memorized the names of all the books, things like that. i did not come to believe in the God of my understanding until about 19 years ago.

have you always believed in your God? if this has turned too personal, please tell me, okay?

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Permalink Reply by Morgan Wajda-Levie on 1st mo. 6, 2010 at 10:58am

Hi Beth,

I don't have anything to add to all of these book recommendations for now, but rather hope that I see you soon at Austin meeting if you haven't been already! As Faye has already suggested, Quakerism is meant to be known experientially. The literature, for me at least, is important because it deepens my worship and my prayer.

And please, if you do come to meeting, stick around for a bit and don't be afraid to introduce yourself to somebody. Butt in on a conversation if you have to. We are a large meeting (at least for what I'm used to) and I generally find that I have a hard time catching everybody I need to talk to before they leave. As such, newcomers can often be left standing awkwardly in a corner as regular attenders hunt down the people with whom they have "business." That being said, Austin is a wonderfully spiritual meeting with excellent weekly worship.

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 6, 2010 at 11:20am

hi, Morgan. what a pleasure to read from a fellow Austinite! yes, literature is important to me also for the same reason you mention. i read something spiritual each morning (and whenever i might feel the need) to help me kick-start my day.

i truly appreciate your comments about the Austin meeting. i have been wondering what it might be like. is the Austin meeting a mix of liberal and conservative, would you say? i haven't attended a Friends meeting for many years but have been drawn back more and more this past year. i hope to make it soon and will let you know. i printed out the schedule already.

if you don't mind my asking, Morgan, were you born into Quakerism or did you seek it out?

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Permalink Reply by Madeleine Cadbury Brown on 1st mo. 6, 2010 at 11:23am

Here are a few Quaker queries relating to alcohol:
"Do we chose recreational activities that foster mental, physical and spiritual health?
How are our lives affected by tobacco, alcohol and drug use?

What can we do to deal with the problems reusulting from their use?

What can we do to recognize and deal with unhealthy ways we treat ourselves?"

Friends are encouraged to make sure what they do doesn't get in the way of the spirit and this applies to alcohol. I don't see it as an outright ban, but as a reminder to avoid the harm from excess.

That's how I see it.

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Permalink Reply by Morgan Wajda-Levie on 1st mo. 6, 2010 at 12:11pm

beth,

We all have to seek it out at some point, but yes, I was raised Quaker. One of my pet interests is the journey through which Quaker youth reinterpret themselves as Quaker adults.

Austin meeting is certainly a mix, though if you mean conservative in the sense of Conservative Friends, I don't know that there are any of us who self-identify as such, though I'm sure that we have many who are interested in the practices of conservative friends. I don't think about the label that much, but I guess we would mostly be described as liberal friends. What that means, however, is that we cover a pretty broad spectrum. While sometimes I have found that this range can lead to a somewhat watered down experience, in Austin I find it to be quite the opposite, as Friends are not afraid to speak in their own language and don't seem to mind be spoken to in somebody else's.

We have midweek worship on Wednesdays at 6pm, which tends to be a very small group, and Sunday worship on, well, Sundays, which I think tends to be somewhere around 40-50 people, but I only counted once during a rather dull set of announcements. That's about the best that I can describe it, unfortunately. You'll just have to see for yourself!

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 7, 2010 at 12:20pm

yes, yes and yes, Madeleine! i am so with you on this. i feel as though it fits in with what you said earlier about jewelry not getting in between God and me. having used and abused alcohol and drugs as a teenager and young adult, i so appreciate not feeling compelled to do that any more and instead to enjoy sobriety and living life on life's terms. my recovery program seems to fit in so very well with Quakerism as i am beginning to experience it. i am most grateful for what you have been sharing with me.

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Permalink Reply by Pat Walsh on 1st mo. 8, 2010 at 11:12pm

Hi, I realize I am a little behind the discussion, but I'll offer some more ideas about books to read. I am new to Quakerism as well. I have been attending Eugene Friends Meeting for several months. It has been wonderful! I have read several books and recommend the following to get started: The Quakers: A Very Short Introduction by Ben Pink Dandelion; The Amazing Fact of Quaker Worship by George H. Gorman; Guide to Quaker Practice by Howard Brinton; The Faith and Practice of Quakers by Rufus Jones;The World is Your Cloister by Jennifer Cavanaugh; and Intimacy with God: An Introduction to Centering Prayer by Thomas Keating. I would check out www.pendlehill.com and www.QuakerBooks.org. They both offer many books and pamphlets that I think you will find helpful. Also, I would attend a Meeting. Quakers are very friendly and helpful. Most Meetings have a library with books on various topics relevant to seekers. I wish you the best on your journey!

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 11, 2010 at 9:16am

Pat, thank you very much for responding. i am going to look for a couple of these books and hope to attend a meeting this coming Sunday. i have a couple of others on the way from Amazon.com--my favorite bookstore! i read quite a bit these days again and need to buy used books whever possible. Also, do you happen to know of any Quaker novels i might read? i've read "The Friendly Persuasion, "Except for Me and Thee," and "Plain Language" and just loved them. Any input from you is much appreciated!

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Permalink Reply by Beth Anne Wiggins on 1st mo. 11, 2010 at 9:20am

Good morning, Morgan. My home PC finally died last week so just now getting online again. thanks so much for your input. i hope to get to the meeting this coming Sunday.

how wonderful that you were brought up Quaker. i imagine it has been a wonderful experience. is it correct to say that one is a "convinced Quaker" if one is not brought up as such? i think i have read that somewhere...

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Permalink Reply by Jay Thatcher on 1st mo. 16, 2010 at 11:41am

Beth

Did I see that you'd read de Hartog, The Peaceable Kingdom? Perhaps you've seen the others in his series on Friends? The Lamb's War and The Peculiar People. Don't rely on these for accurate history but de Hartog paints good pictures and tells fascinating stories.

I've enjoyed some Quakerish science fiction: Joan Slonczewski, A Door into Ocean and Still Forms on Foxfield. The latter seems to be out of print. Judith Moffett, Pennterra. David E. Morse, The Iron Bridge is a quite unusual blend of historical and science fiction. Molly Gloss, The Dazzle of Day is by a non-friend, but is remarkably perceptive in characterization. More info on the genre here.

Jay Worrall has a couple of seafaring novels with a Quaker character in them.

Ann Turnbull has published No Shame, No Fear and Forged in the Fire, which are young adult novels about a romance between a young merchant and a Quaker girl in 1662 in Shropshire.

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