William Rogers: The founding Quakers and no adherence to outward Marks and Signs.

William Rogers - Christian Quaker - First Part - Section 4 - pages 23-27

It has been suggested the Rogers' text is difficult to read. I'm working on a way to share Rogers' "Christian Quaker" by making it easier to experience his work. This is a beginning. I offer an overview and then link to the original text with somewhat of a paraphrase along side.

Overview:

In this section Rogers deals with the contention, by some, that it is silly for someone to call themselves a member of the Church and not adhere to the outward creeds codified by the institutionalized Church.

Rogers, amongst the founding Quakers, expresses complete dissatisfaction with the insistence that people follow the outward creeds of the outward Church. He admonishes instead holding to the inward manifestation and revelation of God’s Spirit within each person. He even goes so far as to suggest that establishing creeds for members to adhere to is, in itself, a turning away from the inward manifestation and revelation of God’s Spirit and that no Quaker up to 1680 had penned anything with the intention of suggesting all should follow what they have written or they are not a true Quaker. In truth, he says, Quakers were not described using outward marks and tokens.

When the Light came into the consciences of the founding Quakers, Rogers says, they came to see that others (not in the Light) used visible order and written faiths of the visible church to guide their paths. However, Quakers did not establish their faith in visible orders and written faiths; they had entered into a new dawning because they were guided by and established within the inward manifestation and revelation of the Light within themselves. It is essential to the testimony of the founding Quakers that the Light entered their consciences and works and guides them from within the conscience and not from outward orders and faiths.

Rogers shares that, when the Quaker gathering just beginning, people (Church Leaders of the time) whose faith was in outward orders and faiths to guide them came to the Quakers and expressed (calling Quakers confused) heir exasperation that the gathering of Quakers did not set down creeds so that people may know what they must believe to be a part of the Quaker gathering and so others may assess Quaker articles of faith. The founding Quakers replied by saying that the inward Light itself is sufficient and that they did not hold to any marks or signs by which they would be under the pale of a Church. They also did not establish articles to which all members must adhere.

Rogers points out differences among founding Quakers did not translate into a judging of each other as fools or hypocrites. Instead, there was Charity in differences. He quotes Romans 14:3,4,22,23 to point out that it is a fact that there has always been differences but such differences are embraced with patience and are no excuse to impose adherence to outward forms in the outward church to resolve differences.

Link to Original Text and Paraphrase

 

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Comment by Keith Saylor on 10th mo. 26, 2015 at 5:59pm

William or someone else. Would you help me understand where your post is going? You are showing that one branch of unprogrammed Quakers had a form of worship that "Liberal" unprogrammed groups do not practice. Okay I understand that. Are you trying to show that some unprogrammed Quakers have or had  "forms" and that makes the Liberal unprogrammed Quakers are suspect because they do not share those forms? Or are you saying the Liberal unprogrammed Quakers lack of adherence to outward forms is an innovation that was not part of traditional unprogrammed Quakers? I am trying to understand what was said in this thread that lead to you write as you have? I am so immersed in William Rogers 1680 documentation of the controvery between the founding Quakers that I think my mind is having a hard time working through other things. There is so much meaning built into to Rogers complex- complex sentence structure.

Comment by William F Rushby on 10th mo. 26, 2015 at 6:08pm

Hello, Keith!

Mackenzie asked: "I'm curious: what "traditional forms and patterns of Friends' worship" have been eliminated?  Are you referring to the Quietism that set in hundreds of years ago, shifting from being a rather rambunctious and charismatic lot to very staid? That it is now infrequent for a message to include Bible references? If not, what change am I missing?"

I am attempting to reply to her question.  I am not interested in being adversarial; that is not my intention, or my style!  I realize that my posts do not address William Rogers' concern directly, and would be willing to start a separate thread if you prefer.  Let me know.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 10th mo. 26, 2015 at 8:21pm

William, It would be great if you would address the words of William Rogers on this thread.

Comment by William F Rushby on 10th mo. 26, 2015 at 8:28pm

Keith: I don't have time to explore William Rogers right now.  I am not sure where he fits into the early Quaker picture??

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