Comment by Ellis Hein on 6th mo. 2, 2017 at 8:35am

No, Keith, the fruits of your actions do not line up with the claim of your words. If your words were honest words, the heart from which they arose would gladly receive the correction of Christ Jesus, who is the only way to the Father.

If your words were not honest words, then the heart from which they arise has some other agenda than hearing and obeying the voice of Jesus, the good shepherd.

You have stated you are "not informed by the life I profess but are come into a different way." There is no other way and there is no other life. All who try to enter the sheepfold some other way are the thieves and murderers. They will neither find the sheep nor enjoy the protection and care of the shepherd. They will neither come to feed in the pastures of life nor drink at the springs of living water because they refuse to enter by Jesus who is the door, the shepherd, the life, and the way.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 6th mo. 2, 2017 at 11:30am

Hello Ellis. I know I’ve stated this before, however, I appreciate you taking the time to express, by way of mediation, the Word in your conscience concerning me and my conscience. Such mediation has been a blessing to me even in the face of the Word visiting upon my conscience a different understanding than your understanding of the Word’s intent upon my conscious and conscience by way of his mediation through you.

By the direct and immediate power of the Word itself in my conscious and conscience I am come out of a Life that looks upon and is affected by the mediations of the Brethren as the Brethren interprets such mediation. It is discovered unto me a Life in the mystery of a conscious anchored in and conscience informed by the inward Seed and Word itself in itself wherein the conscience is not informed by the outward lines of other people and my conscious is not affected by other’s interpretations of such mediations. In the Word itself in itself, I stand and hold without regard for the outward mediations of others. I acknowledge, that to you, my not being affected by your mediation in the way you have interpreted the intent of the Word’s mediation through you, it naturally follows I am outside the Life. We are not in unity on that specific matter. Although it is not my intent to suggest you should turn from your interpretation. I am the Life itself in itself and I am in the Life and that Life is sufficient in itself to guide, inform, and correct, without being affected by the interpretations of those who profess themselves as mediators between the Word itself and the conscious and conscience of others.

I stand before you Ellis and in the Word and immanent Presence itself affirming I am the Life and the Life is in me and, in that new and different Life, it is discovered unto me an independency from the Brethren and the governance of the outward Church. Ellis, by the power of the inward Light I know such joy and peace in the Grace of immanent Presence that even outward judgements, denigrations, criticisms, and interpretations of other people, even those who profess to be mediators between the Life and the conscience of others, are of no affect. I know the liberty of the life of the immanent Presence of Jesus Christ, for I am of that Life. The most wonderful experience of the Life’s affect upon me is that I can state, affirm, and lay down my conscience, and at the same time, not to seek to impose my conscience on another. I accept that, in your conscience, I am deceived and dark and that I am out of obedience. And even more wonderful and awesome, by the power of the Life itself, I am come out of the way of recrimination. I embrace the tension and disunity that we have shared. Our discussion has been a source of encouragement and edification and a real time witness to the power of watchfulness against immanent Presence itself in itself being overshadowed by a spirit of recrimination.

Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 7:39am

It is the function of every human conscience to lead one to honor the God of Truth. A lie dishonors God. There is, Keith, no "Life itself in itself"; there is only Life in Christ. "Life itself in itself" would be the antithesis of Life in Christ; it is death to the soul. So when you say you've come into "Life itself in itself," you admit to being in an autonomous/alienated state, apart from God, and that, Keith, is death in the soul.

We don't need to hear anymore about your coming "out of the way of recrimination" etc. You've shown yourself impervious to admonishment, but you are not impervious to truth. Your conflation of darkness and light has been exposed;  your conflation of your distortions and the tradition's language has been exposed. No one expects you to change, Keith, but when they read your repetitive words, they'll remember: these words have been exposed for what they are.

Comment by Ellis Hein on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 7:44am

Keith, you cannot put this off as a contention between you and me. The disunity is between your profession and the deeds you have shown during this discussion. You cannot stand in the life and presence of Jesus Christ and refuse to feed on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. You cannot stand in the love of Jesus Christ and denigrate his servants and make fun of and ridicule those who speak to you in His authority. That is niether love of brothers nor love of enemies. You cannot stand in the life of Jesus Christ and proclaim that you are of a different life and a different way. If you stood in His life, you would know He is the only life and the only way because He is the only source of life. You cannot know the governance of Christ and state your intentions to misbehave. These are the things that declare your fundamental disunity.

Second, you do not stand before me. I am no judge of these matters, neither am I a rewarder of those who do good nor a caster of recriminations on those who don't. There is one, even Christ Jesus, before whom you stand, who calls for an account of every word, of every deed, and of the heart that produced word and deed. What I have written to you, I have written at the command of Jesus. I had no words to say in response to what you have stated in this discussion.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 9:49am

Greetings Ellis and Patricia,

Patricia, your words are encouraging even though you personally do not mean them so. You write and I own: “You've shown yourself impervious to admonishment …” I own, in the inward Light itself in itself, is sole Mediator and there is none before. The Life itself in itself anchoring my conscious and informing my conscience has discovered to me freedom from those who profess themselves mediators between Christ and the conscience of others. In the Life itself in itself neither you, Patricia nor you, Ellis mediate between the Word and my conscience. The Word itself is Mediator. In the Life, I am come out of a conscience mediated through others and into a conscience guided and informed directly by the spirit of Christ as sole Mediator which meditates directly through the conscious and in the conscience. Patricia, yes, I take ownership of being impervious, by the power of the Life itself in itself as sole Mediator in my conscience and conscience, from admonishment from those, including you and Ellis, who profess themselves as mediators between the inward Christ and the conscience and who also profess themselves as keepers of tradition. It is a blessing to know such grace, freedom, and liberty.

Ellis, I have read the words you represent and which you profess as mediator between Christ and myself. The Life itself in itself of which I am and which is sole Mediator has discovered to me a blessing through your words even in the face of all those cannots.

I am the Life and the Life is in me,

Keith

Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 10:13am

Repetition of your claim is not support for your claim; there's a difference, and people can see it. In a previous comment you wrote the following statement below, yet you've given no support for that statement. What are the Scripture passages to which you refer,  and how do they support your claim that you yourself, in yourself, are the Life and Light?

These are your words from a previous comment. Can you support them or not? If you think you can, go ahead. If you know that you can't support these words, then you have nothing to do but repeat yourself, and be seen for your absence.

Keith wrote: Jesus is recorded to have spoken of parable of the seed and James is recorded to have spoken the engrafted word; each of which speak to the mystery of a conscious anchored in and a conscience informed by immanent Presence itself in itself."

Comment by Forrest Curo on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 10:27am

This guy whose name "Keith Saylor" continues to appear as the human author of certain comments attributed to the Life and 'to the Life in me', whomever that 'me' might be -- this person whom various other people continue to argue with -- I gather he isn't claiming any particular authority for himself, as they seem to think -- but his comments say that the Life in everybody is currently using him as a return address for these various statements -- which I'd translate as: "God is the Life in us, and doesn't need any human pedigree or legal authorization or claim to be repeating teachings derived from any previous humans (although these have certainly influenced this person, among others in this melee.)"

So while I'm curious about this person "Keith Saylor," and whether he can, or would want to, abandon being the sometimes contentious human we've often found frustrating to spar with so verbally -- It doesn't at all seem to me that you're saying what evidently bothers them so, at least not saying it about you-as-a-human. Why, then, are they so bothered?

Comment by Keith Saylor on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 11:05am

Patricia, I let the references stand in themselves. I learned a couple years ago that engaging with you in biblical interpretation is a fruitless task. We do not agree even on the most basic interpretations.

Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 11:18am

Keith, you cannot support your claim because your claim is false. 

Forrest, God's spokepeople, the prophets, do not contradict themselves. When they come across someone who is falsely presenting himself as the Light and Life of Christ, they have a responsibility to expose him (Mt. 7:15-20) by showing his fruits to be lies and/or evasion. (See preceding comment.) 

Comment by Keith Saylor on 6th mo. 3, 2017 at 11:25am

Exactly Patricia. You have already judged my claim as false. Why would I engage you further.

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