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Primitive Christianity Revived, Again

True Christians: How Do You Know Them?

The following is an excerpt from my blog, of the same title, posted on This Was the True Light.

...no good tree bears bad fruit, nor again does a bad tree bear good fruit; for each tree is known by its own fruit. For figs are not gathered from thorns, nor are grapes picked from a bramble bush. The good man out of the good treasure of his heart produces good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure produces evil; for out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks. Why do you call me "Lord, Lord," and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like... (Luke 6: 43-47 RSV)

The Matthew rendition of this portion of scripture states:

Not every one who says to me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven... (Matt. 7:21 RSV)

The popular definition of Christian, whether by people in favor of or people in opposition to Christianity, has more to do with calling "Lord, Lord" and little to do with hearing and following the words of Jesus as he reveals to us the Father's will. The popular definition of Christian has mostly to do with whether or not you believe in Jesus.

All manner of atrocities have been and still are done in the name of belief. The Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the persecution of various groups, modern day wars; all done in and justified by the name of belief. Yet, looking back, one has a hard time stating that those actions were "Christian."

Many quote John 1:12:

But as many as received him, to them he gave power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name...

and extol the power of belief without any understanding of what is involved in that scripture. To "believe on his name" is to believe in his authority. You demonstrate your belief in his authority only when you accept his command. You encounter Jesus' command as you encounter the light of Christ within you. (See John 1 and elsewhere.) Thus, John 3:18-21 says:

He who believes in him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the [authority] of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the light, and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God.

Concerning the light that Christ has enlightened us with, George Fox wrote:

And to you that tempt God, and say, the Lord give us a sight of our sins, priests and people, does not the light, which Christ hath enlightened you with, let you see your sins, that lying and swearing, cursed speaking, theft, murder, and whoredom, and covetousness, and pride, and lust, and pleasures, all these to be the works of flesh, and fruits of darkness? this light within you lets you see it, so you need not tempt God to give you a sight of your sins, for ye know enough; and waiting in the light, power and strength will be given to you; for they that wait upon the Lord, their strength shall be renewed; and living in the light, and walking up to God, it will bring you to true hunger and thirst after righteousness, that you may receive the blessing from God; and give over tempting of God, as if he had not given you a sight of your sins. And to all ye that say, God give us grace, and we shall refrain from our sin, there ye have got a tempting customary word, for the free grace of God hath appeared to all men, and this is the grace of God, which shews thee ungodliness and worldly lusts. Now thou that livest in ungodliness, lying, and swearing, and theft, and murder, and drunkenness, and filthy pleasures, and lusting after the world, thou art he that turnest the free grace of God into wantonness, and casteth his laws behind thy back, and walkest despitefully against the spirit of grace; here the scripture is fulfilled upon thee! oh vain man! yet thou canst say, God is merciful; he is merciful and just, and that shalt thou see, when destruction comes upon thee; for thou canst say, God is merciful, yet liveth in thy wickedness, passing on thy time without the fear of God, sporting thyself in thy wickedness. (Works of Fox, Vol. IV, p.21) [For the full text, see Fox's To All That Would Know The Way To The Kingdom.]

So, let me define a Christian as one who lives in and by this light and believes in the authority of Christ from whom the light comes. Now, if we adopt this definition, won't we be leaving out many who base their claim on "I have repented of my sins, have believed that Jesus suffered and died for me, and have accepted his substitutionary death?" The existence of this question betrays our underlying assumption that it is we, not God, who are in charge of defining who is Christian and who is not.

The Matthew 7 text continues:

On that day many will say to me, "Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?" And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers." (Matt. 7:22-23)

To act in Jesus' name is to act in his authority. To act in his authority is to first sit in council with God, to know his will, and then to act by his command. Otherwise you are acting in your own name. In and by your own authority you can do nothing but evil, for there is none good but God alone...

....Continue reading this blog on my wordpress site....

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Comment by Keith Saylor on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 11:14am: “If you knew the love of God, he in his infinite love and wisdom, would give you of himself. You could then give more to the world than your six-point catechism, repeated ad nauseum, which glorifies yourself and not your Creator.”

Again, all you have left is denigration, disparagement, and judgementalism. You do not know me and you have no idea what I have or have not given to the world. I embrace that what I am is nauseating to you. However, your are not nauseating to me. I too know the love of God and that which he has given of himself. I also know the giving of myself to him and the implications of that giving. As with you I affirm I also “have been favored to know God, know and receive from abundant Life, strength, wisdom, love, hope, joy, guidance, power, and peace.”

Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 12:30pm: Keith: The darkened spirit that was so boisterously proud in your earlier comment has slunk away, and now you hide behind another's words, words that have come from the Life. If you ever come to know the Word within, you yourself will be given an abundance of true, meaningful words, just as those who wrote the scriptures. Man wasn't meant to hide or to steal from another, but everyone must sit under his own vine and fig tree.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 12:51pm: Dark and boisterously proud? Again, you cannot let go of that spirit of denigration and disparagement. Offer an olive branch and she passes you a cup a acid with a bet sugar for taste.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 3:35pm: Um, you can know Christians by how they all love each other, right? I read that somewhere...

Comment by Keith Saylor on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 4:28pm: Hey Forrest. God has told me to tell you that you are of a dark, decieved, and proud, spirit. If you do not agree with me then it naturally follows that you are blinded by darkness and are deceived and reject God. Because if you dismiss what God has told me to tell you then you dismiss God. If you hold that you are of a spirit of Life by the movement of the spirit within you, that is further evidence of your dark and decieved and degenerate spirit that is too proud to follow God. By the way, I love you even as you obviously do not know the love and peace of God. Now right there, that's a Godly love.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 5:40pm: Well, for sure I'm the sort of 'class-clown' spirit that seemed to push George Fox's buttons. Wasn't very reverent to the Hari Krishnas, either, but they just told me "Krishna is merciful." I like to believe we can trust God to look after our spirits -- or at least that we'd better. Something Jesus said, re "If the Light in you is (were?) darkness wouldn't that be dark?"

I really don't think anyone in this thing has meant anything but well. We all recognize one ___ or another as sacred, hate to see it dissed, have trouble when we don't recognize someone else's vision as pointing to the same ___. The blessing of Babel keeps looking like a curse to anyone who loves their own tower to Heaven project too zealously.

Comment by Howard Brod on 5th mo. 23, 2017 at 7:01pm: Keith,

I don't know what to tell you; but that your words that express the full completeness of the Light in itself as being sufficient for everything meaningful in life, has been much appreciated. It has been a valuable and constant reminder of the need to put all human constructs (no matter what form they take) into perspective so that everything we do, see, hear, and speak centers on the Light. As Jesus and other Light-living souls have known, the Light is the essence of God within all. Resting in that Light and being consumed by it, is a blessing in itself we should all cherish.

Your words do not threaten me; rather, they only bring me and others hope and Light. You are doing the work that Jesus and many others throughout the ages have done: spreading the awareness and reminder of that same Light to others one by one so that one day in the distant future the Light will fill the whole Earth and we are all One.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 5th mo. 26, 2017 at 12:02pm: Howard,

Thank you for your spiritual quickening and fellowship.

The discussion on this thread has been edifying and encouraging. Among the many considerations, the separation that Ellis expressed between “I am the Light” and “the Light is in me” is significant. Ellis says they are “two different things” in regards to being “true Christian.” When faced with his distinction, it struck me the awesomeness of the witness that people can become so identified with the Light itself in itself that it is discovered unto them that they are able to say plainly “I am the Light and all those around me are the Light.” Then, with further wonder people can say and “The Light is in me as it is in all those around me.” The dichotomy of object and subject is shattered in the mind of human being!
The true awesomeness of the experience of the unity between “I am in the Light” and “The Light is in me” was discovered to me when Ellis and Patricia set about to characterize my words as implying “I am God” in the sense that “all should bow down to me because I am the exclusive God and creator of the world and no others partake or participate in my Godliness and singular Objectivity.” I can see the import of the attack because, if they were to succeed in making that characterization stick, they could, in their minds, undermine the not just the testimony but the actual witness of being that experientially bridges the separation between “I am the Light” and “The Light is in me” which speaks this “When I am in you and you are in me we are One; for, I am you and you are me as it is with all others” … wow.
Now, none of this it to suggest that I think Patricia and Ellis are wrong or should come into a change of heart concerning their professed experience of separation between “I am the Light” and I am in the Light.” Their is much in their testimony that I find edifying. The Light in them is manifest in their testimony of their witness.

Comment by Ellis Hein on 5th mo. 27, 2017 at 10:19pm: Oh Keith! how you do twist things. My words to you were an admonition to repent and turn, not an attack. They still are an admonition to turn away from this evil. It is a matter of public record how you have spurned to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, how you have made fun of the things Patricia Dallmann and I have written to you, and how you have stated your intention to misbehave. These deeds do not proceed from unity with God, but from heeding the teaching of the serpent, who holds out to you the tempting fruit of "You shall be as God." If you feed on this fruit, you die!

Comment by Forrest Curo on 5th mo. 28, 2017 at 12:00am: That 'serpent' is like 'the dog who ate my homework' or 'the Devil who made me do it.'

Nobody here wants to twist anything, but I've observed people consistently misinterpreting each other -- not "so they can malign" each other -- but from failing to give each other credit for at least meaning well. Also, from failing to fully credit the power of God to redeem people quite apart from any specific criteria one or another of us might be too sure God intends to disqualify them by.

If people are failing to see the need to sign onto your favorite Only Right And Good Thing To Believe, are not understanding or agreeing when you explain why they should, and must do so -- Shouldn't you consider it a strong possibility that God has other, more merciful designs and plans for us than you've so far understood.

Must we go on playing "Who's got the speck?" with each other? Was that what Jesus called for?

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