Comment by Lu Harper on 7th mo. 5, 2009 at 9:30pm

when you spoke about apophatic spirituality, I'd like to raise the possibility that there is a kataphatic tradition as well within early Friends...I see it in the ways in which Friends understood the Bible internally, within their own experience, as it spoke to them.

Comment by Callid Keefe-Perry on 7th mo. 10, 2009 at 9:28am

Lu,

I wonder about this. While I understand that Friends certainly had their own way of approaching Scripture, it still seems to me that what they were doing was grounded in that apophatic Cloud of Unknowing rather than in any firm attempt to posit some facet of the Divine. I think about the via negative not so much as the pure stripping away and negation of things, but also the empty sitting with Spirit, hoping to be filled. Perhaps I am stretching it, but that is my reading of it.

Thanks for the thinking!

Comment by Lu Harper on 7th mo. 11, 2009 at 8:51am

I think I was using "kataphatic" more in terms of "the practice of meditation by means of calling forth images from the scriptures" (example given by Bradley P. Holt in Thirsty for God), p. 75, or as "right-brain prayer, using images rather than discursive language" (Holt, p. 83). Mind you, I doubt that early Friends would have approved of my describing it this way, but it just seems as if the language of the Bible was so alive, so much a part of their experience that it would have been very direct for them in a way that is perhaps harder for us to reach now. So I wonder whether in their worship, when a passage arose for them, it might have arisen visually and experientially as well as with language. The apophatic/kataphatic terminology may just get in the way, since there is no "right way" to spiritual experience...

Comment by Lu Harper on 7th mo. 15, 2009 at 11:02pm

Really like the distinction between testimony & witness and invitation & colony in the Week 3 video! Thanks!

Comment by Callid Keefe-Perry on 7th mo. 16, 2009 at 10:37am

Thanks Lu. Both of those topics were things we learned ourselves as we went through the material. We didn't have direct plans to address them, but they seemed to rise for us as we considered the content at hand.

Comment by Kathleen Karhnak on 7th mo. 19, 2009 at 12:32am

Have you had folks use this in their monthly meetings yet, as you suggested in the introductory vlog? I am curious about how you thought folks might use this. I have some extremely preliminary ideas about using this at my own monthly meeting -- I am the adult religious ed coordinator (a de facto committeeless position in my MM....) and tend to think too much of the MANY, MANY ways we can do things and have more trouble settling into a "This will do" kind of mentality. So hearing about others' ideas may be helpful.

Comment by Kathleen Karhnak on 7th mo. 19, 2009 at 12:40am

Oh -- and a technical question. It looks like I can download the video from the blip.tv site. Is there any problem (e.g., copyright) with my downloading these videos for use at my meeting or to distribute to others?

Comment by Callid Keefe-Perry on 7th mo. 19, 2009 at 9:15am

We have not heard from anyone about their use yet, and don't have any firm ideas about that, but would love for them to be used! They are not coprighted per se - they are under a Creative Commons Non-Commerical 3.0 License and are available for free in whatever form you like as long as they not used for commericial purposes and if you use them you let others know they are free and avilable for use as well.

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