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Primitive Christianity Revived, Again

John Wilbur and immediacy or The Way Not Mediated

Thinking out loud ...

Please read the 10 quotations below from Wilbur's Journal.

In the Journal of the Life of John Wilbur he writes:

"A disposition is making its appearance in divers places in this nation, and among Friends, to think very little of the cross of Christ, practically, and to plead for liberality, both of faith and practice; the perceptible influence of the Holy Spirit is mournfully deprecated by many members of our Society ; some of them in conspicuous standing, are now disposed to put the Scriptures in the place of the Spirit, and seem ready to hold them as the only rule of faith and practice, or guidance of Christians." pgs. 150-151

He goes on the speak of "a want of experience, and of the true knowledge of God through our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." In quotation number three below, Wilbur suggests Gurney has turned from the early Quakers faith in "immediate revelation" to the "divinations of his own brain." This is the core of Wilbur's labor against Gurney. Gurney, and those who labored against Wilbur, gave space for the rational, abstract, or "creature." That is, he suggested, according to Wilbur, that "waiting upon God for the influence of his Spirit (see 1 below)" was not necessary but that the outward doctrines of the Scriptures are sufficent unto themselves.

Gurney represents a fundamental departure from the early Quakers experience of and faith in the immediate revelation or guidance of the inner Spirit. Resting in and waiting on the quickening of Divine Truth was a distinguishing characteristic of the early Quaker spiritual experience (see 9 below). In fact, the early Quakers were the restoration of the immediate revelation of the apostles:

"the testimony of Jesus, which is revelation, had been much withheld therefrom until our early Friends were prepared to receive it, and to walk faithfully by its guidance, as the rule of life, and thus this unspeakable blessing to the church was again restored" (see 9 below).

This renewal of the mind through focus on and faith in the direct and unmediated guidance of the Spirit is a turning from abstract or reflective thought for guidance or direction. It is not a bending of the mind toward external ideas, ideologies, institutions, doctrines, etc. for guidance, it is anchoring consciousness in the Spirit and being guided by immediate revelation in all things and activities in life.

This testimony to and focus upon faith in immediate revelation over faith in and focus upon outward ideological and institutional constructs is what is so captivating about Wilbur's struggle against Gurney. Being present in the Presence ,so that the mind is no longer a tool for the manipulation of abstract or outward thoughts (the carnal mind) and ideas but a conduit for the immediate guidance of the Spirit is a powerful testimony and one that speaks directly to and nurtures the Spirit within me. It is a giving up or dying of the self-conscious ago anchored in the sensual; toward the self-conscious ego anchored in the Spirit ... the Eternal.

It is no wonder Wilbur took issue with those who said the reading and belief in the written Gospel of Scripture was sufficient to salvation. Or the the Bible is the Word of God rather than the inner Spirit.

Immediate Revelation

Quotations from "Journal of the Life of John Wilbur"

1) I was led to speak of the ministry, — of the times and seasons, as well as of the immediate quickening of Divine Truth, as the only qualification for rightfully and profitably preaching the gos pel of Christ I had no information of there being any one present, who professed such a calling, but found afterwards, that there was a preacher there, who, it seems, felt very rest less under my testimony ; and he opened to me, next morning, his mind upon the subject, saying, that he was disposed to think such an one might leach the people properly enough,, without waiting upon God for the influence of his Spirit. The discovery of such a sentiment as this, entertained by a professed minister of our Society, was, indeed, a great grief tome. And I could but see, that if this should become general, our testimonies concerning worship and the ministry would be lost and trodden under foot of men ; for if our ministers abandon that patient, reverent, and silent waiting upon God, for strength and a renewed qualification, as well as for the matter to communicate, their offerings will certainly be no better than salt which has lost its savor ; and we should soon get into the form, without the power.

2) It is very evident, that if we should come to believe that the Scriptures, of themselves, are a sufficient guide in all the walks of a Christian life, then our silent, spiritual worship will ere long, sink into disuse, and our faith in the immediate renewing of the Divine Spirit, on every occasion of the ministry, will be exploded. This result is a consequence that must unavoidably follow such a faith concerning the Holy Scriptures, however excellent they are, in subordination to the Spirit which gave them forth. pg. 152

3) The above mentioned Friend [J.J. Gurney] has been visiting families in our Quarterly Meeting for a long time at intervals, and especially giving lectures on religious subjects ; which is a sort of new gift that has sprung up in these days, wherein the performer has more liberty to follow the divination of his own brain, than in speaking by immediate revelation, as the Spirit lays under a necessity and gives ability and utterance ; thus there is more room for the creature to take a part. pg. 199

4) The Hebrew and Greek languages being very limited, one word in them will sometimes embrace several significations, some of which will be in entire contrast with others ; this he (J.J. Gurney) has caught at, and then made use of those opposite senses to vary the present translation of the Scriptures, and to promote his purpose in undervaluing and contradicting the solid sense and judgment of our ancient Friends, that he may the more readily introduce and propagate Episcopalian doctrines. He tries to make out that the eating of the flesh, and drinking the blood of Christ, means a belief in his incarnation, thus lowering down that deep experience and blessed fellowship in spirit with the Lord Jesus, in his baptisms and sufferings, to a mere assent of the human mind — that the gospel which is preached in, or to every human being, means the outward preaching of the gospel doctrines, that is, the declaration of the atonement of Christ ; that the name of Jesus does not signify his power, but only to ask of the Father that he would grant our petitions, merely because of his beloved Son, Jesus Christ ; that therefore we are not to look for the immediate influence of the Spirit as a qualification to pray, but to push forward into this offering when ever we incline to it ; and many other changes he makes which I can call by no other name than perversions. He endeavors to make out that our primitive Friends were under mistaken views ; in order that he may, with more facility, lay waste our attachment to the doctrines and testimonies they held, and prepare us to embrace new schemes 'which will be more acceptable to the unregenerate man ; liberate us from the mortifying operation of the cross of Christ, and cause us, as a Society, to be more respected by the carnal, superficial professors of religion in the several denominations. pg. 229

5) But the liability of men and Christians to a declension and departure from the immediate government of Truth, as individuals and as a body, induced George Fox and his fellow-helpers to institute and establish a written discipline, both for the church and for the members, as a guide to the ordering of church government, and for the deciding of all questions that might after arise in the Society. pg. 268

6) In the enemy's attempts to destroy Quakerism in 1827, his army was nothing like so strong and formidable as at the present time ; for now, the whole body of professors, save a little remnant of our Society, are joined in concert against the doctrines of a religion immediately revealed to the mind and understanding of man. pg. 360

7) But how can any expect to be favored with the living spring and life of the gospel ministry who give their strength to those who are laying waste this blessed faith of the inward and immediate revelation of God's will to men, by upholding and defending those who have resorted to so many turnings and windings in order to weaken and dissipate our faith in this very doctrine — I say how can such expect to preach the gospel by the revelation of Jesus Christ, or in the demonstration of the Spirit and with power! How vain is the repetition of many words in our assemblies, (however good in themselves those words,) without the renewed anointing! pg. 432

8) The misgivings which an enemy has introduced into our Society of later time touching our faith in the inward light, life, and power of Christ the Lord, has done incalculable mischief both in your country and ours. It has undoubtedly caused hundreds of our ministers to let go their hold of the faith of immediate revelation, whereby there has been, (sorrowful to say,) a lamentable falling back from the spirit to the letter ; holding to the form, but practically denying the life and power ! This degeneracy has been seen and known not only by the living among us, but by other people also ; and it seems very strange how those ministers who have heretofore been favored to preach in demonstration of the Spirit and with power, can now be satisfied only to preach themselves, or to preach the letter. pg. 446

9) Next day we attended meeting at Croydon, and therein referred to Christ's exhortation to one of the churches, namely, " Hold fast that which thou hast," referring to the circumstance that there had been a direct intercourse between the heavens and the earth, through the days of the Patriarchs and the Prophets ; that God had continued to reveal himself through Jesus Christ, immediately to his creature man, but that the professing Christian church had become enveloped in darkness ; and since that time, by reason of the unfitness of its professors, the testimony of Jesus, which is revelation, had been much withheld therefrom until our early Friends were prepared to receive it, and to walk faithfully by its guidance, as the rule of life, and thus this unspeakable blessing to the church was again restored ; and how exceedingly essential is it for her that " she hold fast that which she hath." pg. 523

10) Although, my dear friend, I do sometimes nearly come to want, and necessarily so, for the frequently reminding me of whence all good cometh, as also of my own poverty and wretchedness, without the immediate supplies from the Fountain of all good ; yet when permitted to look back upon my late journey, and a little to realize the marvellous and gracious preservations of infinite goodness, amid the dangers which awaited us, by sea and by land, and through the enmity of false brethren, and subtleties of an enemy's assaults upon untried ground, I seem to be lost in admiration of the goodness of God, extended to an unworthy creature, and leading to language like some on record : " Give thanks unto the Lord, oh ! my soul, for his mercies endure for ever." pg. 553

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Comment by Forrest Curo on 2nd mo. 4, 2014 at 6:39pm: "Eternal life" is our knowledge that the life who lives us is intrinsically eternal.

That in itself wouldn't imply any demands on us; but we demand certain things of ourselves [not necessarily specified] to be and live-as God's true children, true creations of God.

A common Jewish thought on the "Commandments" of the Torah is that God imposed these for the sake of human beings. If you think of Jesus' attitude towards the Sabbath, this would fit right in.

When someone says that Jesus told him to bomb Iraq... I have to recognize him as deluded or lying. I don't need a checksheet for people with harmless leadings. Neither do I have to assume that someone who gets some input from God is right about anything else, should have 'Authority Over' anything or anybody.

This whole line of the conversation just keeps on insisting: "But how do we keep people in line?!" The answer I find in 'Old' and 'New' Testaments alike is: That's not our job!

Comment by Daniel Francis on 2nd mo. 5, 2014 at 12:33am: I don't know if we need a check sheet for every leading. But its not always obvious to all that a thing is good/bad/neutral. For instance, Homosexuality. Or "Just War" theory. Or Abortion.

And many of the things that seem obviously wrong to us now weren't obviously wrong to others in the past. Perhaps we must assume that whatever leadings others have in different cultures or time periods, are legitimate by virtue of being their own personal leadings. But what happens when a person feels led to speak against someone (and this does happen), who has been led to do the thing that caused the other to be lead to speak against them?

And as crazy as that last scenario sounds such scenario's are happening, CONSTANTLY.

Should Quakers be indifferent to these issues? Focus solely on our own leadings and ignoring the consequences that they have on others, and vice versa?

I don't think so. I think we should, and generally do, rely on the story of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels and those writings and teachings that echo or enhance the ideals laid out. And we use them as the way path or the markings by which we discern what should or shouldn't be done, what is a legitimate leading from Christ, and what is illegitimate.

We DO NOT generally leave ourselves or others to their own devices. The Quaker role in the abolitionist movement is as great an example of this as I think any people could have. In this sense we are all Gurneyites: We DO have a pattern for ethics and morals that we try to emulate, a path that we try to follow. And because of this their are paths and ways of acting and believing that we do NOT follow. And we demonstrate this by our actions.

I guess I'm puzzled abut why it is so hard for Quakers to admit to this in theory? Why we continue to assert that we don't have doctrines, when what we mean is that we don't have Systematic doctrines, or creedal statements? Its true we may not have a list or a Cathecism. But we have stories, and we have lives. There are even commandments in some of those tales (Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength"...."love your neighbor as yourself"....."Those who live by the sword will die by the sword"......."do justice"....).

Perhaps it is true that without these stories and sources, humanity could live the life of Christ as well or even better than we do now. And perhaps it should the ultimate goal of each Quaker to demonstrate this. But I would assert that there is not a a Quaker living who did not rely on some ethic of life, some set of rules, that guided them in the process of discerning the leading of Christ not just for them as individuals, but for humankind as a whole.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 5, 2014 at 9:12am: Dear Daniel,

You are correct to point out that we do rely on outward forms to inform our actions. Your words come upon me as conviction. Because, through the presence of the Spirit of Christ within me, I know there is another way that I do not always manifest.

The Presence illuminating my consciousness and conscience is the Principle. The Presence is the Ideal. In the spirit of Christ, I know and experience Life; not predicated by or bound to outward form.

More and more, as the inner Light fills the nooks and crannies of my consciousness and conscience, I embrace the immediacy of the Presence in all things to the transformation of my mind.

In the Spirit, we are not left to our own devices. Faith in the immediacy of the Spirit is the power of Wilbur's message and that of the early Quakers. Gurney sought to tamp down that immediacy and substituted it with faith in outward form and "natural faculties."

Daniel, in the Presence, there is no outward ethic and morals "that we try to emulate." The Presence is the ethic. The Presence is morality. The Presence is the Principle and the Ideal.

What joy and thankfulness in knowing the immediacy of Christ through the inner Light illuminating consciousness and conscience. The Principle within me teaching me life eternal through direct experience rather than borrowed experience of outward teaching.

Danial, I am so grateful for your words because they affirm the Presence within; as the idols of outward form break apart in the Light of eternal Life. I know I am flawed and cling to outward principles. However, the Principle, is strong up against me in all things and more and more I am turning to and embracing the spiritual mind nurtured by the eternal Principle within.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 2nd mo. 5, 2014 at 11:04am: There are fertile tensions; there are also futile tensions on which people ride their painted ponies around and around and up and down. Discussions go from fertile to futile when people cease to pay attention to what anyone else says and means, continuing to say "Yes but" but never looking for the view beyond their buts.

I'm going to go look for it somewhere else!

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 5, 2014 at 11:15am: Dear Forest,

I am thankful for Daniel and his willingness to hold to his conviction and share it. My discussion with him has edified and nurtured my soul. We may not be in the same place, however, we clearly understand one another and have paid deep attention to each other.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 2nd mo. 5, 2014 at 11:33am: Then I must not have been saying my say clearly enough here. If anyone is in fact interested, whether in understanding or in loudly refuting, see

http://sneezingflower.blogspot.com/2012/11/about-quakers-3-some-que...

Comment by Daniel Francis on 2nd mo. 6, 2014 at 12:18am: @ Curo.

Thanks for being willing to hear me out on what I've been arguing. I have been listening to what you have to say though I do disagree with some of it. And my posts aren't directed at you only, so if you thought I was echoing something you already wrote just to be ornery, it probably wasn't directed at you.

@Keith.

I'm glad that you have experienced the power of God in your life in such a powerful way. I just don't believe it is sufficient. There is a reason that we have meeting. A reason that we have Scripture, and a reason Christ came in the flesh, in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. I don't see these as accidents, or lesser instruments of God's will on earth. I think that all of them had and continue to have a role in our growth in the knowledge and love of God.

And a Presence cannot be an Ideal, an Ethic, or a Morality. Presence can only proclaim or reveal something to us. Christ, when he walked on this earth, spoke about things people should do, things they should believe, places they should go, misconceptions they should let go of. When Christ proclaimed the kingdom of God, he could have spoken only of inner experience. Instead he spoke of outer acts: how to treat the poor, how to pray, how to forgive, how to give to others, what to do when someone does evil to you.

These are outward forms. Words about actions and beliefs that were eventually recorded after being recited for decades. And these outward forms are part how Christ wished to be made known and manifested in the world. How then can we abandon them, or declare them to be of no consequence? How can we say that the knowledge of these things doesn't matter? That these words have value only if they are recited to us by Christ himself in our hearts?

These were given to us for a reason. It would be a shame for us in our zeal for the idea of Christ speaking to us himself, to treat as trash that which he spoke to us when he walked upon the earth. Because there is no difference between them. And to treat any of his methods of communication to us with contempt is as bad as rejecting his voice when he speaks to us inwardly.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 6, 2014 at 10:42am: Dear Daniel,

We do not share the same conscience. Your defining of Presence does not match my experience in the Presence. It is not my wish to suggest anyone go against their conscience. I respect yours. It is merely for me to give my testimony. Thank you for sharing yours with me.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 2nd mo. 6, 2014 at 1:59pm: The Church-State and way of worship not the knowledge or the faith in the Life ...

I have smarted deeply for these things, and have been taught by the briars and thorns of the wilderness, whereby my ears came to be opened, to hear the sound of the everlasting gospel, to which they were before through ignorance stopped. For I also did believe and expect great things in a church-state and way of worship; and in simplicity of heart did I enter into it, and walk in it, and was not without knowledge, warmth, and experiences there. But all this the Lord broke down by a strong hand, in one moment; and hath taught me since to throw away all my gains here, and elsewhere, and to count them but dross and dung, for the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ my Lord. And having tasted, having seen, having felt, having handled, I cannot but commend the life ; and dissuade all men from all knowledge, all worship, all religion, all ways, and practices (though ever so taking, pleasant, and promising), out of the life. And this is to know Christ; namely, to know the life: and this is to obey Christ, to obey the life: and this is the kingdom of Christ which is to come, to have the life reign in power and great glory. But the knowing or believing of a history concerning Christ, this is not the knowledge or the faith: antichrist all along the apostasy, in all his various forms and dresses, hath known and believed thus: and this kind of knowledge must pass away, further than it can find a place and service in the life. Be not angry at my testimony; it flows from pure love, and comes forth in great good-will to your souls.

Click on the link to read more, along with the citations.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XPUQTCPEvmOabm4jd67eD6bx1HReBmd.

This is powerful testimony from Penington. Here he unambiguously calls all knowledge, all worship, all religion, all ways and practices (though ever so taking, pleasant, and promising) out of the life, dross and dung.

He unambiguously affirms the sufficiency the life. And call all outward thoughts, institutions, and practices, about the life dross and dung. He admonishes to live the life. Knowing and believing of a history concerning Christ ... he says ... is not the knowledge or the faith. The knowledge and the faith is the direct experience of the life.

This testimony is cordial to my conscious and conscience. I affirm it not because Penington says it. I affirm it through the workings of the Presence within me. I am experiencing that which he experienced. I am well on the path to not believing or seeking knowledge through any theology, any doctrine, any scripture, any religion, any practice. I seek only the immediacy of the Presence unmediated through words or thoughts. Consciousness and conscience free from the borrowed experiences of others by knowing through direct experience the Life within. I am not religious, I am not theist, I am not atheist, I am not Quaker, I am not Baptist, I am not Christian, I am not Protestant, Catholic. In the Presence of Christ ... I am. I am without predication.

This is my testimony. This is my journey. I am thankful their are others who fellowship with me. I am thankful for the fellowship I find in the writings of the early Quakers.

The Life is individual consciousness and conscience anchored in the direct experience of the Presence.

Comment by Barbara Smith on 2nd mo. 6, 2014 at 9:07pm: Keith - You said:

"I am not religious, I am not theist, I am not atheist, I am not Quaker, I am not Baptist, I am not Christian, I am not Protestant, Catholic. In the Presence of Christ ... I am. I am without predication."

this made me smile as I have also felt this dilemma. when I was bathed and washed in the Spirit and my life changed forever I could no longer accept any of these labels. It continues to confuse me when people ask if I am ... (I wear basically plain dress so it invites such questions). I always hesitate. I could say "I am Christian, or I am Quaker" and both would be true. But that is such a thin and inadequate thing to say and doesn't come close to the experience that has changed my entire life and continues to sustain me! I'm right there with you. But we do interact with words with other human beings and I am aware that they often truly are seeking themselves and my answer may be used to move them on their journey. So I answer in whatever way seems right at the moment.

Blessings, Barb

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