Comment by William F Rushby on 1st mo. 3, 2014 at 4:29pm

Hello, James!

A quote from Albert Einstein: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, the same way, and expecting different results."

Comment by James C Schultz on 1st mo. 3, 2014 at 4:48pm

The problem is that doing the same thing over and over again becomes "tradition" and then the __________ way to do things.  Fill in the blank with whatever comes to mine.  When I was growing up I used to hear people say: There's the right way, the wrong way and the Army way.  If football is any example maybe a little Navy way is in order once in a while. :)

 

Comment by Forrest Curo on 1st mo. 3, 2014 at 7:56pm

Evocative metaphor -- & you might also consider: it's well past time to scrap the suvs & lay some train tracks, at least in the physical/social so-called real world. Running around by oneself where there's no road uses considerable energy;  rips up the terrain, etc etc. Maybe a mountain bike...?

The object isn't to end up some place where no one has ever wanted to be; probably there were good reasons not to go there... a strong risk of Wylie Coyote moments, for example. 

Where has 'round & round' happened in a good place? -- & where has it become so boring that blowing the train up sounded like more fun?  Should we add some cool figure-eights?

Who was this train set for? -- What were we supposed to get out of playing with it? How much learning, how much fun? -- and are these really different qualities? Have there been stuffy grownups playing with it in the guise of 'showing us how'? -- & has this amounted to, figuratively: Standing in the door of the Kingdom, neither going in themselves nor letting anyone else enter?

Comment by Forrest Curo on 1st mo. 4, 2014 at 12:40am

Blathering about your metaphor has led me, belatedly, to reflect a little more deeply on it...

Institutional religious tracks/roads are there to help people find their way to spiritual places that are (at least felt to be) good destinations.

"The Sabbath" is one example; and we have it on good authority that "The Sabbath was made for the sake of human beings; we weren't created for its sake." Having this path in place, going around in circles on it every week, has a particular kind of effect on people that God values... takes us to a different place than simply riding a motorcycle through the bushes wherever one likes. But sometimes a tree might have grown up in the way,  in which case a path can be redrawn to fit the fact, to fulfill its purpose rather than making people climb pointless obstacles. 

Another example is the Jewish practice of Torah study, every congregation in the world circling through the same 5 books each year -- and wherever this leads people deeper into the meaning of the Torah, it's an excellent practice. If a group is just rehashing the same thoughts they'd had last year, they might well practice on some other holy book. The practice is good; but a congregation potentially could move the tracks to form some other route; or at least a it might be worthwhile for a congregation to think about why they don't. If there's something in these books that isn't to be found elsewhere: What is it? Liturgical Christian churches follow a similar pattern with different books... Are they deepening with each reading, or stagnating? What makes the difference?

The various tracks that different flavor Quakers are stuck on... Why do we circle around the particular routes we have? We have the authority to move those tracks any place we choose; what we seem to lack is the realization that those tracks are ours, that they aren't there "because that's where our spiritual ancestors built them," but because they served God's purposes at the time. Does the familiar route still serve those purposes? Does our direction need to change? -- If we're starting from a different place than those ancestors, we might well take a different route. But for as long as we're thinking about our purposes rather than God's, "around in circles" is the only way this story can go.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 1st mo. 4, 2014 at 10:43am

The inward Life is actively living the borrowed experience mirrored in outward institutions and paths. Just open to the Presence, and there is no borrowing, only tender and savory experience. The heart, tendered by the Spirit, is the path. All borrowed experience dis-tracks.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 1st mo. 4, 2014 at 11:04am

That Presence is constantly present to everyone, yet goes unrecognized. That is undoubtedly God's intention as well as our bad habit; that is, people from Adam on have experienced the Created World more immediately than we typically experience its Creator, and God could have fixed this sooner if that had been the whole issue.

That Created World is not an unfortunate accident; it is "good." We're supposed to orient to it & navigate within it -- but supposed to do so with that awareness you talk so much about.

The various religious tracks are built with two intentions: ours & God's, both at work in them. These tracks are supposed to take us to direct experience of the Presence -- but any station with a sign on it, reading: "The Presence" -- is just another station.

God is there, none the less. The difficulty is, learning to go everywhere without forgetting: "God is in this place, though I didn't know it."

Comment by Jim Wilson on 1st mo. 4, 2014 at 1:25pm

I have a different perspective on this.  From my admittedly not extensive overview of online Quaker blogs and forums, it appears to me that Quakers really like to 'challenge', 'burn down the house', and 'blow up the train'.  My feeling is that this kind of advice isn't very helpful or needful at this time.  I'm speaking personally, of course; but these kinds of posts undermine a more contemplative approach and make it more difficult, it seems to me, to mind the light.

My way of looking at this is: the sun rises every day, the moon goes through its phases over and over, the seasons of the year unfold in turn.  I wouldn't want the sun to stop rising.  I wouldn't want the moon to vanish from the sky.  And spring is beautiful every single time.

There is a kind of deepening of our roots that takes place with engaging in the same practice over and over.  We don't always see it; just as we do not always see spring coming.  There is a kind of cultivation that is quiet and undramatic, yet also fruitful and efficacious.  It is the kind of cultivation that bears fruit after many years of persistence, like a tree that has grown and can finally bear fruit and nourish others after many years of slowly growing.

As for me, I prefer to let the train keep running on time; I prefer to replace a broken window on a house rather than burn it down.

Jim

Comment by James C Schultz on 1st mo. 4, 2014 at 1:33pm

Jim:  Thanks for your reply.  As an aside my meeting is blessed with an 1812 meeting house.  Over the past several years we have spent a lot of money restoring the building, including replacing window panes with reclaimed window panes from a 1700's meeting house.  The meeting house itself is a great spiritual storehouse, or maybe it's the adjoining cemetery.  If you are ever on LI in NY please come join us for worship you will probably find it very worthwhile.

Comment by Stephanie Stuckwisch on 1st mo. 18, 2014 at 1:04pm

I suspect this is where discernment enters the picture - what brings me/us closer to God? what blocks me/us from God?

Comment by James C Schultz on 1st mo. 18, 2014 at 1:07pm

And the nice thing about Quaker process is that it's a community discernment so there's less likelihood of it being a terrorist attack.:)  And it's not just getting closer to God, it's becoming more like Him.  Allowing the Godly cloning process, if you will, to take over.

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