Comment by Olivia on 5th mo. 2, 2014 at 7:39pm

To me, this person's recommendations (home arrest, restitution) sound so easily like something that will feel, in effect, like prison, like un-freedom, and like the type of thing that your heart is not in and is being inflicted upon you -- not to mention that it can be misused and would be abused.

That said, I'm a big fan of restorative justice which does include the element of restitution but so much more.  It offers a spiritual solution.   One of my favorite versions of it from the little I've been exposed to of it is whatever those tribal  circles are called -- a truth circle?   Something of native people's culture...  

I believe that what is needed is not some external "restitution" or non-prison...what is needed is redemption.   This is the mutual process that happens in restorative justice.  Both parties are changed for the better as a result.  Healing happens.  This is all about both parties becoming honest and open to seeing the whole picture of the human lives involved, their own human emotions and judgments, the human on the other side, our need of change (both sides), our difficulties changing....

There's a good article summarizing this approach at this link -- http://www.beyondintractability.org/essay/restorative-justice. 

Also www.restorativejustice.org.  I believe Canada has done a lot more with this than we have in America.  Anyway.... I love this stuff -- it's very moving.  And isn't that what you want, and least expect, from your justice system?

Comment by Matt on 5th mo. 2, 2014 at 9:24pm

Hello Olivia,

Thank you for engaging the topic! I posted the video as a way to begin a conversation rather than propose a final answer. Thank you for the links, I will look into them!

Comment by Laura Scattergood on 5th mo. 3, 2014 at 5:10pm

Well, I guess I didn't have to get so SNIPPY about it!  The odd thing that is often troubling about this means of communicating is that I often find my humor gets lost.  I don't know how to fix that.   For someone like that loves to imagine Utopias both of human origin and the hope of the Kingdom I oughtn't to be swift to yell NOPE! about rethinking the prison system.   On the other hand, anyone who has dealt with an evil human,  who has been hurt by a criminal has had contact with something darker than I can even speak of.  As a Friend I tend to focus on the Redemptive potential of being human and all the hope there is to bring that inborn Light into full fruition, even in cases where the cancer of evil appears to have wholly overtaken the personality.  Nevertheless, on the practical side, having encountered dark souls and having been harmed by them, the most I can muster, Quaker or no, is the prayer that certain persons be dealt with by prisons as humane as possible and that I, unable to muster much of a prayer for redemption, leave it to Divine Grace to intercede when my own capacity for prayer and forgiveness fails.  All things are possible with God, but on a human level,  as far as those who have shown us their violent side, without adequate mitigating circumstance, at this point I just can't see an alternative.  I suppose since I generally work with children, I express my concerns with prevention.  And I am very zealous about advocating that young persons not be labeled, adjudicated, incarcerated early on.     .    . So my loud NOPE in answer to your question was in response to some of the awful things that I have unfortunately been exposed to in my life and which I will not revisit here.  Hope that clears it all up.  I am really not as snippy most of the time as I seem like online .   Okay, I also want to bring up that I remember when I lived in Oregon seeing the inmates who were lucky enough to be assigned to the prison farm working in the fields.  How they looked so happy working and how we would wave at them.  And reading some of them talk about how it was the happiest they've ever been, the most secure setting they had ever had, and how it was like having a family for the first time.  (Farm work, I love it!)  So,  n being forced into an institutional setting that makes the effort at rehabilitation is a different sort of thing.  I don't mean to be all la la  la  la let's just send everyone off to the Prison Farm.    .   . I am just saying that as tragic as it is when the State (I know we have our differences with even the concept THE STATE) takes away the liberty of a person,  it has been redemptive at times. I know, very very rarely is it redemptive, but it can be, is all I am saying.    I wish there was not EVIL but there is EVIL.   There is EVIL and there are also deeply disturbed persons that we do not yet know how to help.  This concludes my weighty remarks!

Comment by Matt on 5th mo. 3, 2014 at 6:00pm

Hello Laura,

No problem at all. As far as disagreements in online forums go, "nope" is actually pretty tame! ; )

That being said, thank you for weighing in with some weightier remarks! I definitely don't disagree that terrible evil exists in the world and in the hearts of too many humans. My concern is that many of your objections to eliminating state prisons could be applied to questions of the necessity of war, as well. Are "just prisons" any more likely or acceptable to Quakers than "just war"? My sense is that Friends are called not to ignore the realities of the world, but to invite consideration of different solutions than those offered as "the only sensible choices." 

Comment by Laura Scattergood on 5th mo. 3, 2014 at 7:01pm

Yeah, Just Prisons are more acceptable to me than Just Wars.  Alternatives to be considered definitely, but yeah Just Prisons are okay by me. 

Comment by Laura Scattergood on 5th mo. 3, 2014 at 7:05pm

Also, I have no comments on the Peace Testimony or any thing related at this point in time if ever.

Comment by Matt on 5th mo. 8, 2014 at 8:54am

Jane Stokes helpfully shared that Canadian Yearly Meeting approved a minute on prison abolition in 1981. Here's the link: http://quakerservice.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CYM-Minute-on-Pr...

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