Comment

Comment by William F Rushby on 11th mo. 4, 2015 at 7:43pm

Howard Brod wrote: "...now you really can't distinguish any significant difference between those Conservative meetings and their neighboring liberal meetings."

It would be interesting to hear what the NC Conservatives have to say about this.

Comment by Kirby Urner on 11th mo. 4, 2015 at 7:31pm

Interesting comments Howard, regarding rampant assimilationism among Liberal Friends.

"We are Borg.  Resistance is futile".  Sorry, couldn't resist.  :-D

Comment by Howard Brod on 11th mo. 4, 2015 at 1:57pm

Geoffrey made the comment to me in email or the phone (can't recall which) that he found it interesting that those yearly meetings in the liberal Quaker tradition have tended to either not schism or even merge over the centuries and those in the Orthodox and Evangelical traditions tended (until this day) to constantly schism.  And when an Orthodox or Conservative Quaker body started hanging out with the liberal Quakers, it was just a matter of time before they adopted liberal Quaker theology.  He thought that says something, although he wasn't sure what.  I hope I'm recalling accurately what he said, but I think I have the gist of it right.

Even in the 30 years I've been a Quaker I've seen a big shift in North Carolina Yearly Meeting Conservative.  When I first started with the liberal Quakers 30 years ago, the nearby Conservative meetings (within NCYMC) thought poorly about the liberal Quaker meetings near them.  Then a trend of Conservative Friends attending FGC conferences (and Pendle Hill) led to lots of co-mingling, and now you really can't distinguish any significant difference between those Conservative meetings and their neighboring liberal meetings.

Comment by Kirby Urner on 11th mo. 4, 2015 at 1:31pm

I remember then Secretary for FWCC Nancy Irving showing that to me when I visited FWCC HQS in London some years ago.  Here's a journal entry about that.  She called it the "Quaker guts" poster.  It reminds me a lot of a subway map. 

I agree it's fascinating and worthy as an exemplary map of how an influential and long-lasting tradition tends to fork / branch over time.  Not necessarily something to get stressed about in hindsight.  I use this poster with Friends when introducing / reintroducing the topic of Version Control Software. :-D

Comment by Martin Kelley on 11th mo. 4, 2015 at 11:49am

That is an awesome map. When I worked at FGC, I had a copy on my office wall that I would add to at the top using markers and white-out. 

About ten years ago I went to Geoffrey's house and got the latest (and probably last) version of it, which the FGC bookstore started printing and selling. I don't see it on their site (https://www.quakerbooks.org/) but they'd know if it's available anywhere. 

Comment by Howard Brod on 11th mo. 3, 2015 at 9:57pm

The creator of the map is Geoffrey Kaiser.  He is (or was then) a member of QuakerQuaker.org and might be able to be contacted through QuakerQuaker.org.

Comment by Howard Brod on 11th mo. 3, 2015 at 7:50pm

That map is a fascinating read.  It is under glass of the tabletop in the conference table in our meetinghouse library.  I and others when meeting there for some purpose or another, often start reading it.  You can't read it all in one sitting, so there are always nuggets to pick up.  There was an updated version made by the originator some years ago that our meeting purchased.  For the life of me, I can't remember who created the map and was selling it at a reasonable price.  Anyone know?

Comment by Kirby Urner on 11th mo. 3, 2015 at 1:51pm

Quaker Guts