Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich Accetta-Evans on 5th mo. 29, 2009 at 4:33pm

I spend a lot of time with Quaker Quaker and I don't necessarily label myself as "convergent", especially not "Convergent" with a capital 'C'. I hope you'll keep coming back to quakerquaker as long as it interests you.

This gives me a chance to try to articulate something I've had trouble saying about the "convergent" label. At first I liked it because it seemed a way to recognize that something was happening mysteriously in the various branches of Quakerism that had the effect of moving very different kinds of Quaker in a similar direction, or toward a point where their paths might converge or at least cross each other. I saw it as a counter-trend to the tendency to polarize and divide into camps. So 'convergent' wasn't a word for a new kind of Friend, it was a word for something that was happening to many kinds of Friends.

Then "Convergent" started getting a capital 'C' and began to be used by some as if it denoted yet another kind of Quaker alongside the tired old categories of Hicksite, Wilburite, Gurneyite, Beanite, etc. At that point I stopped using the word at least for myself. Nevertheless, as I say, I continue to enjoy following the many conversations on quakerquaker.
- - Rich Accetta-Evans

Permalink Reply by Martin Kelley on 5th mo. 29, 2009 at 4:35pm

This isn't a place for more of the same old overly-intellectualized debates about who is and isn't what kind or not kind of what sort of Quaker. Isabel, unless I'm misunderstanding your situation, you're a theologically-Conservative Friend who's community is largely internet-based and outward focused. If that's not convergent (CONservative Friends meets EmERGENT church (openly seeking seeker Christians)), I don't know what is, but I don't care about labels for you or anyone. It's the fresh direct pulse of Christ's spirit that's welcome here and the people who long for it and long to share it with others.

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Bullock-Rest on 5th mo. 29, 2009 at 9:29pm

Hi Isabel,

Glad to meet you!
I am not "convergent"...or maybe I am. Putting myself in a theological pigeon hole doesn't interest me much one way or the other. I am here on Quaker Quaker for the inspiration, fun and enjoyment of "talking" with Quakers around the country. In my day dreams, I fantasize about traveling far and wide to meet all the good and thoughtful Friends I have had a chance to converse with only via the Internet. In my view, labels can be rabbit holes that lead to nowhere; so I try to get to know the person underneath the world's labels. Most of all, I am interested in how the spirit of Christ is moving in peoples' lives and how we can support one another on the path of living a good and faithful life.

All peace to you,
Elizabeth

Permalink Reply by Richard B. Miller on 6th mo. 1, 2009 at 8:45am

It depends. If you are looking to connect with other conservative Quakers then its a good place for you. But if you are looking to connect with other conservative Quakers and avoid everyone else then it is not. Personally I don't think conservative Friends should avoid other Quakers.

What does "convergent" mean anyway? Many people seem to think it is the internet version of FWCC. I'm not interested in that. What I thought it meant at one point was a recognition that there was a movement afoot within all the branches of Quakerism to "converge" on the center from which Quakerism sprang before it splintered into factions. This center, both practically and theologically, is best represented by conservative Quakerism. On QuakerQuaker I meet people who find themselves in FUM or FGC (or both) who feel the pull towards the conservative tradition. My "secret agenda" is to encourage these people so that conservative Quakerism will take hold within those other Yearly Meetings.

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Bullock-Rest on 6th mo. 1, 2009 at 10:05am

Richard, your definition of convergent, "a movement afoot within all the branches of Quakerism to 'converge' on the center from which Quakerism sprang before it splintered into factions," makes my heartbeat quicken, a sure sign you have touched MY core. Factions and bickering just don't seem like the Quaker way to me; something Central holds us together. Let's get to it.

Permalink Reply by Richard B. Miller on 6th mo. 1, 2009 at 9:02pm

Elizabeth, yes, let's get to it.

I think that the most immediate and practical way to do that is through intervisitation. The internet is a good tool but we must also see each other face to face. Small meetings and worship groups are much strengthened by visits from Friends. If Friends who feel this way would make plans to do a little visiting then I think Truth would prosper among us. Do you feel led to do any visiting?

Permalink Reply by Elizabeth Bullock-Rest on 6th mo. 1, 2009 at 10:13pm

Here in the Arkansas-Oklahoma Quarterly Meeting, Quakers are few, far between, and fairly young in terms of history; so I do a lot of visitation in Arkansas and within my own small, but rapidly growing, meeting in Fayetteville. However, we do have one great "convergence" in our region amongst Quaker women of all stripes and varieties: The Quaker Women's Conference. "Sisters in Spirit" from every branch of Quakerism gather every two years to celebrate what unites us; that is, our our roots, and the trunk of the tree from which our branches sprout.

This year the Quaker Women's Conference will be at the Heart O' Hills Conference Center near Tulsa, Oklahoma, November 5-9. I am trying to get the word out about the conference because it is such a lovely, heart-warming, fun way to get to know people who practice very different forms of Quakerism. It connects us. Until I went to the Quaker Women's Conference, I had never met one person from a programmed meeting. Now I know these good Friends face-to-face and heart-to-heart, even though we don't always see things eye-to-eye!
Link: http://quakerwomensconference.blogspot.com/

Permalink Reply by Martin Kelley on 6th mo. 1, 2009 at 10:43pm

Richard, you've missed your own definition, or possibility, or hope, that you posted as a comment a few months ago on ConvergentFriends.org:

What CF could be is an outreach organization that specifically looks to evangelizing the Evangelicals. Quakers have a specific and very viable version of Christianity that will strongly appeal to many open-minded Evangelical Christians who have never heard of Quakerism.

That's really stuck with me. When I rewrote the tagline for QuakerQuaker a few weeks ago to read "Primitive Christianity Revived, Again: A Convergent Friends Community," I tried to pick something that might appeal to the Quaker-curious Evangelical. I want something that makes them go "huh?, what could that be?" I've heard the term "primitive Christianity" bandied about in Emergent Church circles and they love trendy terms so I looked for a tagline that would say: 1) we're Quaker, 2) we're interested in a stripped-down, alt-Christianity and; 3) we're at least a bit fluent in Emergent Church-speak and open to its discussions.

The faith I want to share is that Primitive Christianity revived, the true Source, the unadorned communion with the Light of Christ. I think the traditional Quaker tools might need a little tweaking but are generally up for the job. But if we're not willing to bring other people in, or share this widely, we're not following the Light. Jesus spoke to all who came and he told us to spread the good news. If there's anything to the "converge" part of "Convergent" (seeing it as a verb meaning coming together) then it's just bringing the evangelizing impulse back into Conservative Friends. Early Friends were loud buggers who engaged with the world. Somehow the Evangelical Quaker side of the split got possession of that fire when the divorce went through but I don't see why we can't start it up again. I think there's a lot of burned out or dismayed Christians who know the pap they're getting from the pulpit isn't what Jesus would be preaching. They're hearts might leap for joy if we could share the good news the Conservative Friends have been storing away all this time.

Permalink Reply by Richard B. Miller on 6th mo. 2, 2009 at 8:20am

We have some very good women here in NCYM-C. In my mind's eye I'm seeing one or two of them coming out to visit you this Fall. I obviously can't speak for them but I will mention it to some of them and see if any are so led.

I spend a long car ride from North Carolina to Indiana one time where everyone else in the van was from NCYM-FUM. It was eye-opening to see how much we had in common.

Permalink Reply by Richard B. Miller on 6th mo. 2, 2009 at 8:27am

Martin,

I haven't forgotten this hope. We should not leave the evangelizing to the Evangelicals. I hope QuakerQuaker can do some of this work. I do think that much of it will have to be done face to face. The internet is a great supplement to the old ways but it cannot replace them. We need to add the new to the old. Of course there are some old ways that are outdated (like the stuff in the back of my refrigerator) but most of them are still good.

The Source is still where it always was and is still available to all. There is a hunger out there both within Quakerism and within the evangelical churches for authentic contact with that Source. This is Good News and we should be spreading it. Let's think more about practical ways of doing so and then....stop just thinking about it.

Permalink Reply by Tom Farley on 8th mo. 9, 2009 at 3:47am

I come with a similar question about what is included in convergence as understood here on QuakerQuaker, though from a bit different background than others whose messages I have read so far.

I am a member of a Beanite meeting, one of the first 4 recognised by the College Park Association of Friends in 1918. What this brings together for me is Conservative Friends practice, Universalist theology, and Progressive social witness. Professionally I am a storyteller and bookseller. I enjoy exploring the history of ideas, language, and human behavior.

I attended Episcopal Sunday School as a child and at about age 11 discovered in their confirmation classes that I did not meet their definition of Christian. I reconsidered this discovery seriously when I met Quakers [at a Methodist college in the early 1960s] and three more times since then. Each comfirmed my initial discovery, though for a time I thought I might identify as post-Christion, but that turned out to be more a recognition of the culture I grew up in than a theology. With each examination I find I have also moved closer to nontheism, influenced some by my father-in-law [retired Methodist minister and observer at the Jesus Seminar] whose faith now follows the teaching of Teressa of Avilla: "God has no hands but ours."

So for me being a nonChristian Conservative Friend is not a new convergence of disparate elements, but a continuation of the ministry of Joel Bean and other Friends who have kept the unity of his faith alive in our YM.

Tom Farley