Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 9:39am

When a man or woman comes to this pass, that they have nothing to rely upon but the Lord, then they will meet together to wait upon the Lord: And this was the first ground or motive of our setting up meetings; and I would to God that this was the use that every one would make of them that come to them, then they would be justly and properly used, according the end of the institution of them at first; we should use them as poor desolate helpless people that are broken off from all their own confidence and trust, and have nothing to rely upon but the mercy and goodness of God; and if he pleaseth to reveal his power among us, we know that he is able to save us. And when we have met with the revelation of God's power, and we have met together in simplicity of mind, the Lord was pleased to communicate his Spirit unto us, and open a door for us, and discover and reveal to us that it was the day of his power: And when we came to examine ourselves whether we were willing in this day of God's power (for the prophet gives us a note of distinction between the people of God, and other people; thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power; which is as much as to say, when God discovers and reveals his power to them, such a people are willing to give themselves over to the government of it;) when we found we were subject to it, we had joy in believing, before we attained the end of our hope; it was gladness to us we found ourselves willing; and I am persuaded that every one of you would be glad to find yourselves willing to part with that which you cry out against (from Stephen Crisp's The Kingdom of God Within). Italics in the passage were added by me. 

It is not only the expectant waiting worship which is necessary but coming into worship having reached an awareness that one is, as Crisp so beautifully says, "a poor desolate helpless people that are broken off from all their own confidence and trust, and have nothing to rely upon but the mercy and goodness of God." This necessary humility results from living in time with a deep hunger for what is real, and a refusal to accept false foundations for self-confidence/identity.

Comment by Jim Wilson on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 10:13am

Patricia, that is a beautiful and uplifting quote.  Is there an online version of this work.  If not, can you refer me to the edition you are using?

Thanks, Jim

Comment by Howard Brod on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 11:10am

Thank you Patricia for the reminder of what brings us to worship: that sense of humility and awareness that we need a connection with the divine to truly be uplifted to a heavenly place in our hearts in this life.

Comment by Patricia Dallmann on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 12:07pm

Jim, I am glad that you also find this quote to be beautiful. The full sermon can be found at nffquaker.org/page/the-kingdom-of-god-within on the New Foundation Fellowship site. There is good understanding throughout the sermon, and one idea in paragraph four pertains to the sequential relationship between inward and outward operation of God's power, which has been touched upon in this thread. Here's that paragraph:

First, inwardly; there is a great inclination in the minds of people, to look more at the operation of God's power in this great work outwardly, that to look at it inwardly, but unto that there must be a daily cross taken up, and it is my business at this time to tell you in the name of the Lord, that your duty and mine is to turn our minds to the working of the power of God in ourselves, and to see that other kingdom of the man of sin weakened and brought down within us; then there is no fear but he will carry on his work outwardly, and we shall see as much of that work as belongs to our generation; but the great matter and chief government of you and me, is to see the kingdom of God set up within us, which stands in holiness and righteousness: Our business is to walk till we see the righteousness of this kingdom set up within us, in our hearts and souls, and to have a real change made.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 12:52pm

While I said that this fuss had prepared me to speak at an after-Meeting meeting I had not planned to attend -- what I left out was that in the moment before I spoke, I could not imagine what I was to say or how I could possibly say it -- and the result of all my babbling was to prompt a more eloquent colleague to say what had been on his mind. I was, at that point, throwing up my hands for God to do what I could not... and this is, I think, where any 'activism' or inactivism we do has to be based.

Comment by Kirby Urner on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 1:38pm

Setting up worship on the one hand "versus" doing works in the world on the other, is a false dichotomy. Quakers self sort by temperament along a spectrum, from quietist to ranter, have done so for hundreds of years, with no single Friend condemned to just one station on that radio dial (we're free to dial in day by day).

Full spectrum Quakerism is friendly to both extremes. I am leery of any preaching / teaching which would deny its activist heritage in favor of some brand of quietism deemed "more pure". Keep the doors open to activists, invite them in. Then remind them that some Friends are not boat rockers and prefer to eschew participation on activist committees (however named). Nominating is sensitive to those preferences.

No drastic curtailment of services offered to the public (i.e. an opportunity to be part of a Quaker activist lineage) need apply among Liberal Friends. If you find out the Quaker meeting or temple you plan to join is unwelcoming to activists, shop around. Quakers are a varied tradition and the differences between them may be great. Lots of people move to Portland because of local oppressive brands of Christianity. Activists will always be welcome here. Consider joining us.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 1:58pm

And if any of us whimpering cowards just want to sit quietly and not bother that nice Mr. Pilate, we're welcome too? Gracious, gracious!

Seriously, you have been trying to impose your view of what we're sposed to be on people who are simply wanting us to first let the Spirit answer that question. And I don't think we can afford to "solve" any more problems the way we've been trying to do it instead.

Comment by Kirby Urner on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 2:17pm

Saying I'm "trying to impose" something comes across as accusatory, whereas I'm more creating a safe space, going forward, for Friends of my ilk, the ones who might have heard the Spirit already? Just because you're still waiting to see you way clear is not a red light for the rest of us. I leave you alone at your stoplight, not imposing a thing. I'm thousands of miles away.

Comment by Forrest Curo on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 2:33pm

Past tense. Some of us do have memories; and when somebody goes out of their way to denigrate people who disagree with them, we do remember that; and though we might ideally want to let Wiley Coyote backpeddle quietly back onto the cliff he just ran off, we also build up resentment from past misbehavior.

It's not as though we never did anything dumb ourselves. But sometimes, it's simply better to let things rest.

Comment by Keith Saylor on 9th mo. 21, 2015 at 4:01pm

 Our heritage as members of the community of heaven is our safe place. Neither men nor women nor outward political or religious institutions "create" a safe place. Or safe place is by and through the power of the immediate presence of Christ illuminating our conscious and informing our conscience. Our illuminated being, by the inward Light, and its outshining in the world is not created outwardly it is born inwardly and we walk in eternity by that power within us. 

Our heavenly heritage is a sufficient safe place in itself and it is right there with us right now even as I write this and as you read it. Our experienced heavenly heritage is activism and by that eternal Presence we "see" the world transformed even amidst the yuckiness of the heavens overshadowed by an outward faith. In our Heritage there is no-thing to create ... it is gifted in all things and in all moments.

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