Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Martin Kelley on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 7:32am

I expect some more knowledgeable than I to pipe in, but my understanding of worship protocol is to take the hat pdf while someone is ministering: it's doffed for Christ in the room. One of the signs of impending schism back in the day was that makes worshipers would keep their hat on during the vocal ministry of someone they felt to be in error.

Permalink Reply by Caroline Gulian on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 8:17am

Your post and another post in a different thread seem to have had the same issues.  Trying to reason with something that is beyond human understanding.  I cover my head because this is what the Lord wants me to do.  There is no psychology or biology involved as these sciences were created by humans.  Even the scriptures are written by people who were trying to understand the Lord and, while they are a useful tool, the bottom line is that following the Lord goes beyond human reasoning.

 

Take off your hat when you feel it is right.  Caroline

Permalink Reply by Barbara Smith on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 8:55am

My only contribution here is to say that we humans cannot really know what it means to cover our heads. I personally DO believe it makes sense for men and women to have differences here, as well as in many other spheres. I do not agree that head covering was a human-invented observance, because at least for Christians it was carried on in their own form because of the words of Paul, which were inspired by the Holy Spirit, as is the whole Bible. So in a way you could say that God passed the instructions through Paul to us.
In support of this idea, there is a Bible translation used by the Anthroposophists that was done by Rudolf Steiner, Christian clairvoyant from the early 20th Century. He translated Paul's instructions to say that women should cover their heads to "protect their head forces," and "if a man prays or prophecies with his head covered it is a devaluation of his head forces."
The Revised Standard version says "that is why a woman ought to have a veil on her head" and continues with this mysterious phrase "because of the angels." The Steiner Bible paraphrases that as: "That is why the feminine being should care for the forming forces around her head, in order to create the right relationship to the angels."

Now no matter what you know or think of Steiner this gives food for thought. And I believe, though I don't know for sure, that the idea of head forces on the top of your head is backed up in other ancient mystical traditions along with the Third Eye. I know that I can add my own experience as a woman. When I am deeply in silent prayer I can feel a tingling on the top of my head that I believe are those forces.
I also spoke with my son-in-law about this, he is an Anthroposophist, and he said that women are more open to the spiritual world, and men more to the material. If women are bare headed they are too open to the spiritual, and it men cover their heads when praying they would be too closed from the spiritual forces they are trying to reach.

So this is way more than you were asking for, and may just muddy the waters, but it is interesting and in my mind just gives us poor mortals a hint of why God may have ordained these things, in the Bible as well as in our individual lives.

I'll be interested to see what further responses you get.

Barb

Permalink Reply by kevin roberts on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 11:42am

welcome to the difficult world of quaker hats, jeff.

i wear a felt broadbrim in the winter, and an amish-made straw broadbrim in the hot weather. when i worked as a cowhand, i also attached brass grommets to the straw hats so i could run a leather thong through them to hang them down my back when i chased cows or spread manure.

fishing your hat out of a cowpie or the manure spreader is good incentive to modify it somewhat for better retention on your head.

but with respect to retaining it on my head for social reasons, i don't sweat the confusion. i wear my hat most all the time, except when i pray. it's been pointed out that doing it that way was customary during some periods of quaker history. i wasn't around then, so i do it today as a way to distinguish between the forms of respect i show to god, and the forms of respect i show to people. i suppose the reason is the same now as it was then.

the key for me is this: if a human being asks me to take my hat off to eat dinner with them because they were raised that way and hats make them uncomfortable at the table, i'll generally take the hat off when i eat dinner with them. if they don't care, i'll leave it on. it's just a hat, after all.

however: if the human being wants me to take off my hat because it's a sign of deference for them or their position in society, then i keep it on my head, and they can deal with it. i won't use my hat as an acknowledgement of somebody's elevated position in human society-- i'll speak politely and treat them courteously, but i reserve taking off my hat as a sign of respect for god. it's an easy distinction, and the reasons for doing it today are exactly the same as they were 350 years ago. under god, we're all equal, all alike. all of us deserve identical respect and courtesy, but none of us deserve more than someone else because of some human status thing.

this means that i get into trouble in courtrooms, and so i try to avoid them. but in a courtroom i'm already in trouble before they notice the hat, because i won't stand up when a judge enters the courtroom either. in other social settings, i'm perfectly happy to take my hat off, so long as it won't be interpreted as an indication of the sort of social stratigraphy that weird clothing customs like that come out of.

for me the issue is why people want my hat off my head. is it for a driver's license picture? sure, i'll take it off. as part of the employee dress code for a hardware store i choose to work at? sure. when i sit in the back row of a baptist worship service? no. when i stand in front of a judge? not then either.

when you make these types of concessions for god, you will be presented with dilemmas that you didn't have to deal with before. if you're faithful to them, your measure will increase, and you will be presented with more difficult choices to make. as time goes on, you will understand more of when they are important and when they might not be. and your spiritual growth will continue.

it's just one of those things you have to do, you know. keep it as light as you can, and laugh at the absurdity with people. but the hat is a line that i won't let people cross. until that point, i don't take it too seriously.

Permalink Reply by Isabel Penraeth on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 6:20pm

In Thomas Clarkson's A Portraiture of Quakerism, he talks about the Quaker men only removing their hats to minister and to pray. (P. 143 in my copy.) One observation I can offer of current Quaker habit of the plain Friends in Ohio is that the men remove their hat even when someone else prays in meeting, but not when someone else offers ministry. There is sometimes a pause and then a small flurry of activity when they realize that someone is praying during worship rather than delivering ministry.

Permalink Reply by Bruce R. Arnold on 3rd mo. 19, 2012 at 9:20pm

I take my hat off when I pray, or in corporate prayer (as in a meeting.) Other than that, I can't say that I feel moved one way or the other. I don't find, for instance, any value in keeping my hat on in a courtroom when I would usually take it off in a schoolroom. Neither of these carries any weight for me. I guess I tend to take my hat off indoors because I see it as outdoors wear,  just as I would take off a jacket or fold up an umbrella. Since social customs have changed so much ( no one tips their hat to a lady any more, or to someone of a higher social status), some of the old Quaker testimony regarding hat honor just no longer applies IMO.

That being said, anyone who genuinely feels called by some leading of the Spirit to wear or not wear their hat under certain circumstances would receive no criticism from me. I would only suggest that perhaps this would be a good use of a clearness committee. The first Quakers learned these things together as a community, and it behooves us to make us of the community to help move on into the world as we know it.

Permalink Reply by kevin roberts on 3rd mo. 22, 2012 at 11:31am

my own experience regarding the possibly outdated nature of the earlier friends's testimonies regarding clothing indicates to me that the original reasons often still apply, in spite of the intervening centuries.

for instance, it is still very much expected in american courtrooms to take one's hat off as a sign of social deference to a judge. if you try to keep it on, you may be ejected from the court by the bailiff or the the judge may threaten you with a citation for contempt. this is identical to the situation for which friends were legally punished in the 17th century. many social customs have changed, but this is not one of them.

should a friend choose to remove his hat in the presence of another because he feels the testimony is not important to him, then he should do as he is led. but i believe that it is important to point out that doing so reflects a change in friends's values, not a change in the reasons for the original testimony.

a simple test of the matter is to ask a few judges what their response would be should they encounter a citizen in their courtroom who refused to remove his hat (or to remain seated when the bailiff orders "everybody rise . . ." as the judge steps into the room.) some judges swing one way, others swing another.

crossing the wrong one the wrong way can be costly.

 

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 3rd mo. 22, 2012 at 12:01pm

I have worn a plain hat for most of my adult life.  It identifies me with other plain Christians.  I never use it as an instrument of belligerence or insubordination; if other men remove (or should remove) their headgear, I remove mine.

I never wear my hat in prayer.  Since meeting for worship is in its entirety an act of prayer for me, I never wear my hat in meeting.

Incidentally, I have saved myself from many cracks on the head (on the farm) by wearing my hat; it often gives a second or two warning when I will be at risk.

Permalink Reply by Simon Smith on 7th mo. 6, 2016 at 2:34am

I have always had my head covered most my life with usually a ball cap when I was younger and then I just felt the need but didnt know why so it was just habit or just who I was, 1st thing I put on after I got dressed last off at night next to me asleep. I only took it off to shower or sleep.
I was introduced to friends church in my late 20s and the more I understood the more I felt moved instead of habit it had a reason. I felt it once I felt it had a reason. The reason changed me. Now a few months from 40 yrs old I have changed to flat brim hats, formal is black wool felt, my everyday is a white straw hat because I live in a hot part of the country, straw breaths and white because of the heat. I take it off if im just sitting watching tv or if im hot but its in my hand next to me or on my head.
I wear it to meetings, which I dont attend often, as Florida doesnt have the opportunity to attend like Indiana did.
I wear it inside at the table and I wont remove it for anyone unless I want to.
Court I would probably hold it in my hands while I ask if I may for religious reasons, other than that I would do what the judge tells me to do.
As far as respecting others, I would remove it out of respect for their custom
And tradition, but anyone who knows me wouldnt ask.
Tomorrow I will be wearing my formal hat as we lay my grandpa to rest.
Some will see it as disrespectful, but I feel differently.
I dont dress plain. I wear regular off the rack clothes and tomorrow a regular suit and tie and my formal hat.
I may not be the best quaker, I smoke, and curse, and live like everyone else. But I try to live the way my heart or inner light leads me to live,
So in short its just a reminder that God is with me always.

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 1st mo. 11, 2017 at 10:14pm

I have been a plain-dressed Christian for most of my adult life, and I speak from this experience.

Men wearing their hats in worship, except during times of prayer, did not originate with the Friends.  It was a Puritan custom!

As I stated earlier, the entire meeting for worship is for me an occasion for prayer, so wearing a hat would be quite out of order.

I do not think wearing one's hat should be a gesture of belligerence.  Be respectful of others!

Permalink Reply by Timothy Carter on 7th mo. 27, 2017 at 2:16pm

Why do I wear the hat?

For me, wearing my hat is a very individual purpose.  The larger corporate part of all "Friends" wearing a hat seems to have disappeared for the most part, with the passing of time. I guess my answer may be of value to you, because I still wear my hat every day. Even though, I am sure my answer is only for me; maybe my story and experience can perhaps speak to you.

I started wearing a hat about 24 years ago, Before I became a convinced Friend. I started wearing it in about 1994 but certainly not every day, nor for any resemblance of a faith reason. In 1998, when I lost my first wife; I was bewildered and overwhelmed. As I unexpectedly struggled to finish raising children by myself, There was very little joy in my life.

But as an active outdoorsman with my own company manufacturing and marketing to outdoor people. I often wore my hat to trade-shows. My (now deceased) sister saw me at one of these shows, wearing a giant smile and my hat. She circled the picture and mailed it to me, with the words. "I want to see more of you like this." Of course My sister Detra meant my rare smile. But the concept of the hat representing new hope and faith in my life was born in me. I began to wear it more and more, with the idea of it meaning new hope and faith to me.

In 2000, I took off from Florida, with my two children to Pastor a Quaker Church in Tennessee. When I showed up in the hat; They thought, that I thought that I had to wear the hat, to be a Quaker Minister. It was funny to them and also to me. But they liked it and everyone in that little town, came to know me by that hat, that I was the Quaker minister.

I dedicated babies in it. I took seniors milk and groceries, when they were shut in. I took them Bread when it was snowing. And I reheated messages in homes of people who could not get to meeting, year-round, in the hat. If your garden needed digging or your yard needed mowing, I did it. Yep, you guessed it; in my hat. Rain or Shine, I wore the hat. 

As I worked through the rigorous process with the Yearly Meeting of becoming a Recorded Friends Minister, I did everything in that hat. It became a symbol of every good thing in my life. I visited folks in the hospital in it and buried many wonderful Godly "Friends" wearing it. It became a mark of the Light that guided me. A Friend's minister really meant, being their servant for me; as I think we are all called to be.

My duty then was clear; I was to teach people how to be a Friend to God and to each other. Pretty simple and clearly a good, true "Friends" mission. And yes, the hat came to mean that to me.

I left the ministry at the end of 2003 with the promise of big money & I charged like a rhinoceros into a big muckety, muck Executive position as a National Sales Manager. At the same time, I tried to resolve the unhealed hurt from losing my wife, by burying myself in a liquor bottle. The position was short lived but the foolish alcoholism was not. This time was a terrible time of failure and heartache. And yes, You guessed it. I took the hat off during this time.

After a pit of despondency, of which I deeply regret now; I sought help for my alcoholic abuse in 2010 & 2011. As I recovered, you guessed it. I put the hat back on, remembering that it had once meant new hope, new life and all the good things that God could do in my life. It became a renewed part of a stronger, daily personal commitment to live the right way and do the right things.

I have worn it every day ever since. I never go in public without it. Getting my driver's license with it was a challenge at first. As I explained it was faith based and could not take it off for a public picture. A wonderful black gentleman asked if he could take over and helped me fill out the necessary paperwork. As a tear brimmed his eye, he explained that he wanted to help me; because his relatives had been rescued by Quakers through the underground railroad. What a wonderful experience this was.

That has been 7 years ago and I don't talk about it, unless sincerely asked. But when people do, I am glad to tell them that "the hat represents the light that guides me" and that it can also guide them. Many wonderful sharing experiences have resulted. It often provides moments for me to connect with people about matters of the heart. Simple, clear and plainspoken, I am often able to share faith, because of it. (Funny thing, a friend that I had not explained the hat practice to, volunteered in conversation that he could see I wore it; because of "the Light that guides me." From this friend's meaningful observation, I get this expression and use it now ).

Publicly, I always wear it. If it is a real conviction, (and it is); then it must be a regular practice. It is my legal identity. It has become who I am. I will be buried with it. My wife hates it. But she loves me and understands it (I think). 

Do I take it off? Yes. For my wife at the dinner table & whenever I speak (asking for guidance). There are other times also. But like with every part of my life anymore, I ask for guidance. 

In worship services, I wear my hat in the building and generally take it off when I am seated. I only do this, because it is so misunderstood and I do not want attention on me, to detract from people's worship focus. I always take it off to stand and speak publicly in meeting or elsewhere.

In the beginning, Quakers wore the hat to indicate that they had a direct line of guidance. And that no man or woman was above nor beneath, another. That all men had equal access to God's truth. And no church official or pontificated, public leader deserved any more respect, than any other man or woman. We are neither above nor beneath others. We are all valuable and worthwhile. None is any more worthwhile. None less worthwhile. Equal value and access to God. And equal treatment for and from all others as a principle. That was a bedrock belief of Quakerism. We could be clear individually about God. And we could, under His guidance be clear and peaceful with each other. The hat still means this to me.

I agree with another Friend's clear synopsis. "So in short its just a reminder that God is with me always."

Why do I wear the hat? In some ways the observance is very public. And some ways, it is very private. But it is always reflective of a deep, personal, heartfelt conviction.