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Permalink Reply by Olivia on 4th mo. 8, 2014 at 12:22pm

Hi Laura!

Your words remind me of a weird experience some years ago in which I had just seen someone for an appointment, a practitioner who did some sort of divine energy healing.  

I was taking the metro train back home after the appointment and felt strangely aware that all of the people were...kind of... (going weird here) big, unique blobs of timeless soul that were in fact not limited to this body but for now, were in it:   So many very specific, endlessly unique, pools of soul going about their business....

It was a weird sensation that gave me (a flaming liberal) the immediate feeling that abortion, for example, hurts an actual very specific soul, not just stops a body.   (a terrible thought)

but also the sensation of relief that terrible things like child abuse and killing of children were...for those children....not the last thing they would experience, and were not something that would stay with them long in the spiritual world...    

You seem to be invoking that same connection...asking us to look for the marriage between the terrible and the Oceans of Light. Interesting that you even "went there."   I wonder what your insights have been from your life experience -- since you knew somehow to frame a talk about torture with this subject line. 

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Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 4th mo. 8, 2014 at 1:03pm

I suppose there comes a point where every person with any theistic leaning at all struggles with the theodicy question.

My way has been to accept that for reasons unknown evil exists.  (I avoid endless philosophizing on whether evil  it is an illusion, or necessary ontologically as the flip side of good, or a necessary accessory to free will, the literal manifestation of a Sentient Malevolent Personality and on and on.   .   .) Whatever evil is, illusion or not, I acknowledge it for "working purposes".   I disown teachings that may be framed in many modern "New Age" publications (this is not to attack all New Age ideas), but I  dodisown those teachings that would instruct us that all that happens is a product of our thought, and that we can visualize and receive all we want, that we are completely powerful in ourselves.  I cannot bear that burden. 

This makes me a dualist I suppose.  For working purposes there is GOOD and BAD, and I have thrown my efforts into the former.

When overwhelmed with the onslaught of evil actions I like to remember what George Fox himself saw, an Ocean of Light that overcomes completely all darkness.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Massengale on 4th mo. 8, 2014 at 3:11pm

Laura and Olivia,

What a blessing you are.

I am grateful to you both.

Rick

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Permalink Reply by Forrest Curo on 4th mo. 9, 2014 at 1:52am

Some things people do are distorted expressions of the desire to be loved; torture is a distorted expression of the desire to be secure... and since the Powers look to be embodiments and personifications of that same desire, that's the sort of behavior you'd expect them to promote -- going back to ancient times, even.

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Permalink Reply by Olivia on 4th mo. 9, 2014 at 6:33am

I find it an interesting notion that one could actually manage to feel more secure by torturing someone else. 

Wouldn't that feel like "I have just sold my soul to the dark side and now I'm all icky with that"?

Of course though when I ask that I'm reminded of M. Scott Peck defining evil as "militant ignorance".  There is something to the lack of presence, lack of awareness one chooses when doing blatantly evil acts.   The light dawns as we realize that we have a choice and we have to be the one to own our own choice.

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Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 4th mo. 9, 2014 at 10:23am

Olivia said:

I find it an interesting notion that one could actually manage to feel more secure by torturing someone else. 

Wouldn't that feel like "I have just sold my soul to the dark side and now I'm all icky with that"?

Of course though when I ask that I'm reminded of M. Scott Peck defining evil as "militant ignorance".  There is something to the lack of presence, lack of awareness one chooses when doing blatantly evil acts.   The light dawns as we realize that we have a choice and we have to be the one to own our own choice.

Hi Olivia and Forrest:

Scott Peck is one good place to examine this human behavior. The roots of the behavior as framed by Forrest make sense when understanding the dark side of human behavior.

But we are a Great People being Gathered over the centuries.  We aren't inherently less evil, less human,  less savage.    .    . we are a people who believe humans in recognizing their divine  nature  in relation to the Light don't have to accept that humans must remain savage and evil.  And we tend to actually do something about these matters as in this example:http://www.quit-torture-now.org/quit/home/

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Permalink Reply by Olivia on 4th mo. 9, 2014 at 12:42pm

Oh!  When I look at Forrest's words again, I see it a little bit better, in my own way -- "ah! distorted Light".  Yes.        In "energy work," there's a prominent view that any imbalance (and we all have these) is a pattern of distortion of the natural flow of light.   Healing of these being most supported by nonjudgment and gentle awareness.  Does this translate to helping torturers?

I spoke with a vet who suffered from PTSD after being in combat.  There's a lot in this but I'll just keep it short.  He said of his tendency to snap and become violent that "they don't deprogram you at the end."   Said this several times....

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