Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 12, 2014 at 11:33am

And that's all I have to say about that!

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 12, 2014 at 9:51pm

Apparently people didn't understand my reference.  This weeks QQ editor's picks featured a story about George Fox University getting a federal exemption so they could deny campus housing to a trans students.  For one thing, that's just plain mean!  And I don't like them anymore.  They make me mortified to be a Quaker.  I was all  ready mortified enough about their ROTC thing. Enough is enough.   So what are we going to do about this? "Repent Oh Bloody Town of Newberg!" See link to article if it isn't up on QQ home page anymore.  (By the way, I know this is another thing I am being judgmental about, I tend to do that. That's because I don't think being judgmental is some big no-no.)

(I approve of the last Friend's Remarks.)

http://www.pqmonthly.com/breaking-department-education-grants-georg...

Permalink Reply by Olivia on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 7:26am

"Repent Oh Bloody Town of Newberg!"

yes!  I think they have a long history of making gay people very uncomfortable too, though I can't remember the particulars.  I saw some documentary that touched on that years ago. I think they are evangelical in that traditional cultural sense...

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 9:49am

Well it makes me sad.  Because I have always been proud of Newberg and the vision of the Friends there, they planned to make that valley a "Fruitful Garden for the Lord" when they came west.  Unfortunately, the university offers an educational institute that I have participated in to get CEU credits, a very good program, but I won't take classes through it anymore.  They appear to have lost their Quaker roots and I wish they would change the name of the University.  I also wish NWYM would clearly speak out to the fact that the activities of GFU do not reflect the unified voice of the meeting.  Or something. I don't know.  Maybe this calls for some kind of epistle or something from dissenting voices within NWYM.  

I

Permalink Reply by Keith Saylor on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 4:26pm

A witness to tenderness in circumstances of tensions of conscience by Isaac Penington.

He writes:

So that the true church government being in the Spirit, and over the conscience as in the sight of God, the great care must be to keep it within its bounds, that nothing else govern but the Spirit, and that the government be extended only unto that which is to be governed.

First, Care must be had that nothing govern in the church of Christ, but the spirit of Christ: that nothing else teach; nothing else exhort; nothing else admonish and re prove ; nothing else cut off and cast out. Every minister in the church is to watch over his own spirit, that it intrude not into the work of God, that it take not upon it to be the teacher, the exhorter, the reprover, &c. And every member is to wait in the measure of the Spirit which he hath re ceived, to feel the goings-forth of the Spirit in him who teacheth and governeth ; and so to subject not to man, but to the Lord ; to receive from the Lord, to obey the Lord. Not to know any minister according to the flesh ; but to re ceive and submit to what comes from the Spirit, in the Spirit. Not to know Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, but the Spirit ministering in them. Paul may err, Apollos may err, Peter may err (and did err, when he compelled the Gentiles to live as the Jews, Gal. ii. 14. for which Paul withstood him to the face. ver. 11.), and Barnabas also did err. ver. 13. But the Spirit cannot err; and he that keeps to the meas ure of the Spirit in himself, cannot let in any of their errors, if they should err, but is preserved. For the least measure of the Spirit is true, and gives true judgment; but he that receiveth ever so great a measure of the Spirit, yet if he keep not low therein, but lifteth up himself because thereof above his brethren, may easily err himself, and draw aside others into his error.

Secondly, Care must be had that the conscience be kept tender, that nothing be received, but according to the light in the conscience. The conscience is the seat of faith; and if it be not kept close to the light which God lighteth there, faith is soon made shipwreck of. Christianity is begun in the Spirit, which keepeth out the fleshly part, with all its fleshly wisdom and reasonings about spiritual things; and HH the beginning is in the anointing, so must the progress be. As the Spirit begins in the conscience, by convincing that, by persuading that, by setting up his light there, and leading the soul by that light; so that light must still be eyed, and according to its growth and manifestation in the conscience, so must the soul stand still, or go on.

The great error of the ages of the apostasy hath been, to set up an outward order and uniformity, and to make men's consciences bend thereto, either by arguments of wisdom, or by force ; but the property of the true church government is, to leave the conscience to its full liberty in the Lord, to preserve it single and entire for the Lord to exercise, and to seek unity in the light and in the Spirit, walking sweetly and harmoniously together in the midst of different practices. Yea, and he that hath faith, and can see beyond an other, yet can have it to himself, and not disturb his brother .with it, but can descend and walk with him according to his measure; and if his brother have any heavy burthen upon him, he can lend him his shoulder, and bear part of his burthen with him. Oh ! how sweet and lovely is it to see brethren dwell together in unity, to see the true image of God raised in persons, and they knowing and loving one another in that image, and bearing with one another through love, and helping one another under their temptations and distresses of spirit, which every one must expect to meet with.

Permalink Reply by Stephanie Stuckwisch on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 5:49pm

I'm feeling torn as I write this.

My child, whom I love more than anyone else in this world, would not be unconditionally welcomed at GFU or in some parts of NWYM. My inner mama bear is restless and growling. 

I also have very dear F/friends in NWYM and know that they are entering into an issue that NPYM went through 3 decades ago. 

Liberal Friends did not automatically accept LGBTQ members. Marriage equality torn some meetings apart. Individuals on both sides were capable of vindictive and self righteous behavior. I can remember yearly meeting plenaries that were filled with tears and anger, business meetings that were vicious and meetings for worship that were not worshipful. 

Recent history says we should not throw stones.

NWYM is now confronted with similiar issues. A dear F/friend and her husband are are working w/in NPYM for inclusivity. West Hills Friends church is facing disciplinary action due to their open welcome of LGBTQ. I know GFU alumni and students who are not in agreement with the actions of the university.

I possess only peripheral knowledge, but it seems to me they need us to reach out in prayer and Friendship rather than painting with a broad brush of condemnation. 

Permalink Reply by William F Rushby on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 7:30pm

Stephanie Stuckwisch wrote: "I possess only peripheral knowledge, but it seems to me they need us to reach out in prayer and Friendship rather than painting with a broad brush of condemnation."

Well put, Stephanie!

Permalink Reply by Mackenzie on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 7:48pm

ROTC? Don't even tell me they've got military recruitment crap on campus...

Laura Scattergood said:

Apparently people didn't understand my reference.  This weeks QQ editor's picks featured a story about George Fox University getting a federal exemption so they could deny campus housing to a trans students.  For one thing, that's just plain mean!  And I don't like them anymore.  They make me mortified to be a Quaker.  I was all  ready mortified enough about their ROTC thing. Enough is enough.   So what are we going to do about this? "Repent Oh Bloody Town of Newberg!" See link to article if it isn't up on QQ home page anymore.  (By the way, I know this is another thing I am being judgmental about, I tend to do that. That's because I don't think being judgmental is some big no-no.)

(I approve of the last Friend's Remarks.)

http://www.pqmonthly.com/breaking-department-education-grants-georg...

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 8:53pm

Well, thanks to those who are being Quakerly about this! And being understanding of both sides etc.   I just feel very sad, when I see the face of the rejected student.  It really seems to me that this student is being rejected because George Fox University does not like this student's genitals.  Because this student has surgically altered their genitals, and is not fit to profane the temple. Wasn't there once a eunuch walking along a road at some point?   In these modern times we know that a person may be born with the genotype of one gender and the phenotype of the other, or they may be born with a combination of both.  Now that in modern times we can understand that gender cannot always be pinned down exactly, either genotypically or phenotypically or emotionally, we need not be stuck with superstitious ideas about not letting the cursed in the temple!  Notice I get very excited about young people and the younger they are the more emotional I get. I am terribly emotionally about a tender fetus, and I am terribly emotional about a tender college student. But I do appreciate those of you who are able to process this like the mature adults and Quakers and so on that we are.    And bless thee Stephanie for thy devoted motherhood, our first calling.
 Stephanie Stuckwisch said:

I'm feeling torn as I write this.

My child, whom I love more than anyone else in this world, would not be unconditionally welcomed at GFU or in some parts of NWYM. My inner mama bear is restless and growling. 

I also have very dear F/friends in NWYM and know that they are entering into an issue that NPYM went through 3 decades ago. 

Liberal Friends did not automatically accept LGBTQ members. Marriage equality torn some meetings apart. Individuals on both sides were capable of vindictive and self righteous behavior. I can remember yearly meeting plenaries that were filled with tears and anger, business meetings that were vicious and meetings for worship that were not worshipful. 

Recent history says we should not throw stones.

NWYM is now confronted with similiar issues. A dear F/friend and her husband are are working w/in NPYM for inclusivity. West Hills Friends church is facing disciplinary action due to their open welcome of LGBTQ. I know GFU alumni and students who are not in agreement with the actions of the university.

I possess only peripheral knowledge, but it seems to me they need us to reach out in prayer and Friendship rather than painting with a broad brush of condemnation. 

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 8:56pm

Hi Mackenzie,

Well the last time I took a class there, it wasn't just recruitment, they were partnering with another school to offer an ROTC program. I am not sure if that is still going on, but there were soldiers on campus in military dress. I was frightened by that presence, and I never took a class there again.
 
Mackenzie said:

ROTC? Don't even tell me they've got military recruitment crap on campus...

Laura Scattergood said:

Apparently people didn't understand my reference.  This weeks QQ editor's picks featured a story about George Fox University getting a federal exemption so they could deny campus housing to a trans students.  For one thing, that's just plain mean!  And I don't like them anymore.  They make me mortified to be a Quaker.  I was all  ready mortified enough about their ROTC thing. Enough is enough.   So what are we going to do about this? "Repent Oh Bloody Town of Newberg!" See link to article if it isn't up on QQ home page anymore.  (By the way, I know this is another thing I am being judgmental about, I tend to do that. That's because I don't think being judgmental is some big no-no.)

(I approve of the last Friend's Remarks.)

http://www.pqmonthly.com/breaking-department-education-grants-georg...

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 13, 2014 at 8:58pm

Hi Keith, I am not sure what this means exactly,  I wonder how Penington would phrase it in modern language, but on the surface, it sounds good.  Forgive me, it is too hot for my lazy brain to translate into modern English.  I have been translating into Spanish all day and now I can barely speak English!
Keith Saylor said:

A witness to tenderness in circumstances of tensions of conscience by Isaac Penington.

He writes:

So that the true church government being in the Spirit, and over the conscience as in the sight of God, the great care must be to keep it within its bounds, that nothing else govern but the Spirit, and that the government be extended only unto that which is to be governed.

First, Care must be had that nothing govern in the church of Christ, but the spirit of Christ: that nothing else teach; nothing else exhort; nothing else admonish and re prove ; nothing else cut off and cast out. Every minister in the church is to watch over his own spirit, that it intrude not into the work of God, that it take not upon it to be the teacher, the exhorter, the reprover, &c. And every member is to wait in the measure of the Spirit which he hath re ceived, to feel the goings-forth of the Spirit in him who teacheth and governeth ; and so to subject not to man, but to the Lord ; to receive from the Lord, to obey the Lord. Not to know any minister according to the flesh ; but to re ceive and submit to what comes from the Spirit, in the Spirit. Not to know Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, but the Spirit ministering in them. Paul may err, Apollos may err, Peter may err (and did err, when he compelled the Gentiles to live as the Jews, Gal. ii. 14. for which Paul withstood him to the face. ver. 11.), and Barnabas also did err. ver. 13. But the Spirit cannot err; and he that keeps to the meas ure of the Spirit in himself, cannot let in any of their errors, if they should err, but is preserved. For the least measure of the Spirit is true, and gives true judgment; but he that receiveth ever so great a measure of the Spirit, yet if he keep not low therein, but lifteth up himself because thereof above his brethren, may easily err himself, and draw aside others into his error.

Secondly, Care must be had that the conscience be kept tender, that nothing be received, but according to the light in the conscience. The conscience is the seat of faith; and if it be not kept close to the light which God lighteth there, faith is soon made shipwreck of. Christianity is begun in the Spirit, which keepeth out the fleshly part, with all its fleshly wisdom and reasonings about spiritual things; and HH the beginning is in the anointing, so must the progress be. As the Spirit begins in the conscience, by convincing that, by persuading that, by setting up his light there, and leading the soul by that light; so that light must still be eyed, and according to its growth and manifestation in the conscience, so must the soul stand still, or go on.

The great error of the ages of the apostasy hath been, to set up an outward order and uniformity, and to make men's consciences bend thereto, either by arguments of wisdom, or by force ; but the property of the true church government is, to leave the conscience to its full liberty in the Lord, to preserve it single and entire for the Lord to exercise, and to seek unity in the light and in the Spirit, walking sweetly and harmoniously together in the midst of different practices. Yea, and he that hath faith, and can see beyond an other, yet can have it to himself, and not disturb his brother .with it, but can descend and walk with him according to his measure; and if his brother have any heavy burthen upon him, he can lend him his shoulder, and bear part of his burthen with him. Oh ! how sweet and lovely is it to see brethren dwell together in unity, to see the true image of God raised in persons, and they knowing and loving one another in that image, and bearing with one another through love, and helping one another under their temptations and distresses of spirit, which every one must expect to meet with.

Permalink Reply by Laura Scattergood on 7th mo. 14, 2014 at 1:16pm

Guess what David?  I am a member of the Evangelical Quakers!  But thanks for being more understanding  than I am! And I still don't want to take classes their anymore.  Also, be aware that GFU does not represent the position of all Evangelical Friends
 
David Nelson Seaman said:

I'm going to go out on a limb on this one and comment that George Fox University should be recognized as a the outstanding educational institution it is.    It was formerly Pacific University dating back to the 1890's, and has been operated by Evangelical Quakers for some time.  It is scholastically a very good school and highly regarded.   It is, I belive, ranked as one of top Christian colleges in the county.    And has been targeted by Gay Activists for years.

 There has been no false representation on their part; faculty and students fully acknowledge when applying for admissions and employment that the school is founded on  adherence to a strict doctrinal approach to the Bible being the Word of God and not open to liberal reading. They clearly state in all their literature that they believe the only union acceptable  is the one prescribed in scripture.    They are Evangelical.     Anyone seeking admission has agreed to a voluntary submission to that stated mission.     This is not the first Gay Activists controversy targeting GFU.

A few years ago a Gay Activists group bought a school bus and drove around the country posing as " Freedom Riders", a nod to 1960's Civil Rights activists.    At  GFU they were met not with fire hoses, guard dogs, club wielding police or National Guard escort.    They were instead welcomed and greeted, offered food, and given a respectful audience with school administrators who explained their views on the Bible.      They were welcomed and not disrespected.   

I think  Evangelical Quakers are given the short rope on most blogs  in discussions regarding their views  on marriage and the sexes.     I wonder if we could get some Evangelical Quaker points of view, to balance out this discussion on GFU ?     

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